Beautifully Complex Podcast | Episode 350
Alternative School Options with Dawn Fleming-Kendall

[00:00:00]
[00:00:12]
Penny Williams:
Welcome back to Beautifully Complex, everyone. I am so thankful that you're here and you're listening today, and you're on this journey to try to help your neurodivergent kid or students live their best life. I have with me Dawn Fleming-Kendall, who is an educational advocate, and we're gonna talk about alternative options for school.
[00:00:38]
If school isn't working for your kid, what are your options, both in the realm of placement and what school looks like, but also what you can do within the school placement as well. So I'm really excited to just give a lot of options for parents who need options and don't always know what's out there.
[00:01:02]
Dawn, will you start by letting everybody know who you are and what you do?
[00:01:05]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
Sure. So Penny, thank you again for having me here with you today and with your listeners. I really appreciate your time and theirs. So I'm Dawn, and I'm a mom to five kids, many of whom are neurodiverse. I was a foster parent. On the professional side, I spent years as a special educator. Then I grew into a pupil services director. I've also supported charter schools starting up, and now I spend a lot of my time doing advocacy work, parent coaching, and things like that. So glad to be here.
[00:01:44]
Penny Williams:
So needed. So needed. I'm thankful for you. So if a parent comes to you and they say, school isn't working for my kid, where do you start? Where does your mind go? What questions do you ask?
[00:01:56]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
Yeah. Most of the parents that come to me are saying, it just isn't working. This isn't happening right. I thought I would send my kid to school, they'd get on the yellow bus, they'd go down the road, and life would be good. Right? And then you add in the neurodiversity piece and the services that vary all over the country, depending on where you are, and the quality of services and stuff like that. So we start with, where is success happening? Right? Where are you seeing success with your child?
[00:02:14]
Maybe they're having success in their encore classes. Maybe they love STEM, they love science, they love those kinds of things. Maybe they're doing well with their therapies, their related services. Maybe none of it's working. Maybe the chairs are being thrown, the desks are being thrown, all of those good things that then happen when a kiddo is not doing well in a particular placement. So I think we always start with what's positive, especially when you're trying to interact with the school district.
[00:02:59]
Collaboration is key. I always say a lot of times parents are extremely upset when they reach out to me. They're very upset. They feel like nobody's doing their job, nobody's listening, et cetera. Ninety-nine percent of the time, most schools are trying to do their best, do a great job, and really kind of lean into you as the parent. Sometimes it's hard to see that, right?
[00:03:24]
But I always say when we go into any meeting or talks with the school, we have to think positively, that we can work together to come to an agreement or go down a path where we're both supportive of each other.
[00:03:40]
Penny Williams:
It's so important to remember that educators do not have to learn about learning disabilities, about ADHD, about autism, about neurodivergence, anxiety, none of it. They don't have to learn anything about that to become an educator. And so the intention is there to do great by the students. I think a lot of times the problem is, or one of the main problems is, that they just don't know what that looks like.
[00:04:11]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
They don't. Yeah, they don't know. Teacher training is what it is, right? It's getting watered down even more as we go. And then there are the nuances of each particular kid. For example, my children, while they may have autism or ADHD, they also have exposure from opioids. That really throws a whack into the ball curve when you're thinking about all that. You're like, autism, but. Or this, but. And so many kids are like that. Well, I'm autistic, but. Or I have a speech problem, but. And learning all those nuances, even for those of us that have been in the field a really long time, it's hard, right?
[00:04:53]
It's always changing, and the science is always evolving, which is also a positive.
[00:04:57]
Penny Williams:
Yeah, and bringing that science in. Now we're learning about the nervous system and how we need to be regulated to be available to learn and all of these things. And so we're learning a lot more, at least those of us who have to because maybe we have that kid at home. But now it's about how do we integrate that? How do we take this new stuff that we're learning and all this knowledge that we have about what neurodivergent kids need and try to make it work within a system that is much more rigid and about teaching the masses rather than teaching individuals?
[00:05:35]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
Yeah. And you hear from teachers that their heart is in it. Most of them are like, I'm working within the system that I have, the bubble that surrounds me. And so you have to give grace and space to that, to a point. But then I also say that a lot of the strategies we're trying to bring to the table, or that we're trying to help implement, they help not just our kiddo, but they help all kiddos.
[00:06:06]
I always say these strategies help the smartest, best kid learn even faster. So why not use it to everyone's advantage, not just the child with neurodiversity? Because again, when you're talking about strategies, a lot of it is brain-based. A lot of it is science-based. So you're talking about how does our brain work best? Well, here's the strategies, right? Our kids need it. Other kids can truly benefit from those pieces as well.
[00:06:33]
Penny Williams:
Yeah. So much of what we ask for as far as accommodations or adaptations and modifications are things that would be great for all of the students. We're not asking you to specifically do it just for my kid. Do it for everyone.
[00:06:51]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
For everyone. Don't leave it in a silo. Because when you think of us as adults, how many times do we naturally accommodate for our own weaknesses that we know we have? Maybe I'm a super note-taking person, right? I have these all over the place, or I forget. And so again, we just need to show that those strategies make everybody shine, not just our particular group of people.
[00:07:17]
Penny Williams:
Yeah, so how do we know if it's more about getting what we need in the school that our kid is already in versus a really fundamentally poor fit and needing to make some sort of change with maybe an alternative school?
[00:07:38]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
Right. So when I would work in public schools at that decision level, safety was usually our number one guiding principle. Is the student safe? Are they safe here during the day? And the other one was, can we get them here? Because a lot of times that's a huge barrier.
[00:07:58]
Sometimes once we would get them there, they'd be okay for the day, but getting them to the location was super difficult. So obviously that's not the environment they're prepared to be in, right? Because they were being unsafe generally in the home environment before getting to us.
[00:08:16]
Or if they're unsafe in the school, if they're just generally not able to participate in the day-to-day activities. And it could be unsafe with themselves, it could be unsafe with others. Those were usually the big-ticket red flags that this isn't a successful place or that we need to manipulate.
[00:08:40]
I always say we try a few things before we throw the baby out with the bath water. You can reduce your school day. That's one huge piece. You can also do hybrid options. You can look at in-person instruction plus additional online instruction at home or maybe out in the community later on with a tutor.
[00:09:00]
Maybe having them come in for their therapies and only staying for our core instructional piece, and then doing their therapies offsite at a different time. So a lot of times parents don't think, well, if this place doesn't work, then we have to pick a new place. When you can kind of mold the current situation to be different and then work toward potentially, as you build those skills with that child, coming back to a full-time placement within the school setting. So yeah, safety is usually our number one red flag that we need to make some either serious changes in our facility or look at other places.
[00:09:44]
Penny Williams:
Mm-hmm. And that safety too isn't just physical safety or safety in social interaction and relationships. It's also psychological safety and emotional safety. My kid went to high school in ninth grade, and everything just went to hell because he did not feel safe at all. He was hypervigilant every moment that he was there, and we did end up going hybrid because of that, because he couldn't stay in survival mode for seven hours a day and he wasn't available to learn. His butt would be in the chair sometimes.
[00:10:23]
Or he'd be in the bathroom texting me to get him. So about half the time his butt would be in the chair, but he still wasn't learning anything. He was still so dysregulated. And I never thought they would say yes. For years they'd been telling me no about everything I'd ever asked for, just about. And I just happened to have someone who got it, someone whose office he was spending a lot of time in when he needed a break, who said yes, yes, we can do some in person and some online. And they had a rule against kids, freshmen and sophomore kids, doing online classes.
[00:11:02]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
Yeah.
[00:11:03]
Penny Williams:
But when you ask, sometimes rules are flexible in certain situations.
[00:11:09]
And if I'd never asked, I don't know where we would've been eventually. But just asking sometimes is that first step. What can we do that is way outside of the box of what everyone's thinking about? And there are also schools that offer hybrid choices now too, right, in some areas?
[00:11:30]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
Yes. Yeah. So like you said, having that person that can be creative with solutions, I think is huge sometimes. And again, as an advocate, that's where I come in a lot. Not to hammer down on people. It's to be creative. Here is the wide variety of things I have seen. Let's see if we can pick a few of them that we know will be successful with that student and that work for you, work for the parent.
[00:11:58]
But yeah, there are so many options now for kids, especially with the growth of a lot of states now offering some type of voucher program or a flexible spending educational account. It kind of varies by state. But I think what we're seeing is, one, parent voice and choice is huge, right? And it's growing stronger every single day.
[00:12:24]
Hybrid is one of the options. That's a great option. There's online options. There's even online with a teacher that might need in person, still in that school building. Like you said, particularly with your son, if he connected with a particular staff member. I know I had hired teachers that would then work with kids in the evening virtually. They had that strong connection and were able to continue fostering that kind of positive academic journey with that child.
[00:12:46]
So hybrid is huge. And then we're seeing the explosion too of a variety of charter schools, anywhere from gifted to autism to behavior-based to more hands-on learning. I know the one I was part of was very big on hands-on learning. One of the ones I follow that I love is Alpha School. Have you seen that one down in Texas?
[00:13:24]
Penny Williams:
I haven't.
[00:13:26]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
That one's amazing. They are doing some great work. They do two hours of academics and then the rest of the day is hands-on learning, which is really a great model for a lot of schools to even try and follow.
[00:13:42]
Penny Williams:
Mm-hmm. So many of our kids do so much better with movement and hands-on learning. Learning requires getting up and moving around and doing things, right? So yeah, there's so many options, I think. And what else is there that maybe parents aren't thinking about, that they don't know exists? Is there anything else that you might offer as an alternative?
[00:14:11]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
So, I mean, homeschool is also something that's growing. And a lot of times parents are terrified when they hear the word homeschool because they think, I can never do that or I can't handle that. And there are so many ways now to also support that, right? With the hybrid option, that's one.
[00:14:28]
There are so many co-ops. And a co-op is generally organized around a couple days a month or a couple days a week where parents can drop their children off. A lot of times the curriculum continues and they are given assignments at home. There's so many ways to do that. And I always joke with parents, especially if they're in a very tough predicament.
[00:14:52]
My son had very extreme school burnout. There really wasn't a way to manipulate the situation to make him successful in attending an all-day setting. So we are, I'm gonna call it quasi-homeschooling, with a tutor three days a week, three mornings a week. And then I support the other, I call it 20 percent of his education and therapies and things like that.
[00:15:19]
But I always joke, people are like, I can't homeschool. I was like, you have a diploma, right? You've been through the same process. You can do this. And we all, I think as millennials, joke that we've all been to YouTube Academy now, or university as we call it. If there's a problem, a lot of times you can find the answer. So you're not stuck.
[00:15:44]
Penny Williams:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:15:46]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
So I think homeschooling, whether you're looking at a pod where you're joining a group of people on a regular basis or a co-op to support yourself, or even just going rogue and going all on your own, that's another huge piece. We can also talk in more depth, I don't know, Penny, if you wanna talk about the kind of explosion of ABA schools and autism-type schools as well that parents are looking at.
[00:16:14]
Penny Williams:
Yeah. Yeah. I think talking about all the options, because somebody will be listening who doesn't know what to do, and one of these options might spark at least an avenue to consider.
[00:16:26]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
Cool.
[00:16:27]
Penny Williams:
And there's too, like Bridges, I know Bridges in California for twice exceptionality, private school obviously. But there are lots of schools that are actually structured for kids who have learning differences.
[00:16:50]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
There are so many that are structured. And I think that it's an interesting kind of diversion. So as a parent, if you live in a state where you have those scholarship funding opportunities, it makes it a little bit easier to kind of split and say, I'm just gonna try that, because there is now funding available. That parent voice and choice is really leading the way.
[00:17:13]
If you are working with your school district still, I think that's the time that you really have to dig deep and become collaborative. You all need to work together to show, one, that you are trying as many options as you can in the building, reviewing on a regular basis. And when I say regular basis, I was meeting with my kids' team often two to three times a month, on a very regular basis.
[00:17:40]
Especially when you have a kid in crisis mode. I always say there can't be enough times where you're meeting because they flip a table one day, they go after a staff member another day, they're shut down, et cetera. You can't get them to school that day.
[00:18:01]
I also feel at that point, while they're diligently taking data on your child, I also feel it's the parent's responsibility to take data on your district, right? Because they're coming to the table flooding you with numbers. You leave thinking that you need to almost be a math statistician sometimes. It can be very, especially when you add in that emotional piece, it's so hard.
[00:18:26]
It's so hard as a parent to sit there and rationally talk about, well, four out of five times he flipped the table or she flipped the table. And when you hear that, your heart breaks, right? That your child is triggered to that level of fight or flight.
[00:18:53]
But then taking data on your district, saying, are they following through with, say, we're gonna try a hybrid strategy? How fast did it get into place? Was it consistently offered? And then how long was your student, your child, engaged in the session? The teacher could say, well, they were there for an hour, that's great, but if in an hour they did maybe one problem because your child was not participating, or it took maybe you on the back end becoming a Cirque du Soleil orchestrator in order to keep them on that session, I think those are all important pieces that we have to keep track of.
[00:19:36]
It's exhausting too because you're also in the middle of this crisis with your child and you're like, how am I supposed to keep track of all this? But I also find it to be almost grounding. I would call it my journaling. At the end of the day, this is what had happened. This is what I put forth as their parent. These are the strategies I tried. This is the success I had.
[00:19:56]
And sometimes, even just like a teacher, I'd run around with scotch tape on my legs and mark down how many times he did it, how many times he didn't do it, all those kinds of things. So at the end of the day I would just look and say, okay, objectively. And what was great is when something was working, you're like, okay, this is working.
[00:20:27]
Penny Williams:
Yeah.
[00:20:28]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
This is helping. Because a lot of times you're so engrossed in the day to day, you get kind of drowned a little bit in the emotional support that you're trying to provide to your child and trying not to drain your soul at the same time.
[00:20:47]
But really, really working on finding those positive moments to highlight for yourself as well. So say the district is providing these pieces, it's working, it's great. It isn't. I've tried standing on my head 10 times. It still...
[00:21:04]
Penny Williams:
It's still a...
[00:21:05]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
...affected. They tried standing on their head 10 times, right? I mean, we'll do sight words in any way, shape, or form we can. But getting it done in a good way.
[00:21:16]
Penny Williams:
Yeah, as you were talking about working with the school, it reminded me, and I think this would be so valuable for parents to hear what this process is like, that sometimes the school district actually needs to pay for an alternative placement.
[00:21:35]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
They do. Yeah.
[00:21:36]
Penny Williams:
And what is that process like? How do parents even start down that path?
[00:21:43]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
So, and again, this is where you have to come to the district saying, I don't feel that this placement is appropriate. And when you say that, you also have to kind of, it's so hard to take that emotional piece out of it, right? Like, he's failing, he's awful, this is awful, they're not eating, they're not sleeping, all of these things.
[00:22:05]
Coming to them and saying, my child has not slept out of this last month, 20 days, most of them school days. So saying to them, this is the reason why. I also say when you come to those meetings, you have to come solution-based. Come with your data.
[00:22:27]
But again, you can try and be creative with what's occurring in the school. But if you're like, well, I would like to look at these other placements, have a list of potential placements in your area that you think might work. Or if you don't know what those might be in your area, say, I would like to find a placement that has ABA therapy, speech, OT, the things that you are seeing as missing. These are the key pieces that I need to see in either an alternative placement or how we're going to reshape his current placement.
[00:22:53]
So being really objective, I feel, is important. Again, as a parent, you're allowed to call an IEP meeting at any time. You could call one every week. That's something that is your right. So that would be the first step in that process, coming with your data, coming with solutions, I think are the biggest pieces, being in the mindset that if you're approaching a school district about it, it may be a longer discussion.
[00:23:36]
Penny Williams:
For sure.
[00:23:38]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
Because they also then have to provide data saying, well, this child does deserve to be in an alternative placement. Or no, we haven't exhausted all of our resources. There's that box in the IEP, the LRE box, the least restrictive environment. That little box, they have to make sure they have cleared that box of all their options. So if your child's maybe in gen ed with some inclusion, maybe they would look toward all inclusion before then moving to an alternative setting. So you kind of have to look and see where they stand on that continuum of services before moving all the way drastically toward an outside placement.
[00:24:23]
Penny Williams:
They tend to want to go through the entire continuum too.
[00:24:27]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
They do. They wanna drag out.
[00:24:28]
Penny Williams:
...time in every single piece and make totally sure that it's not working before moving to something else. At least that was our experience. Yeah. And are there qualifications, like is there a list somewhere in IDEA or something?
[00:24:45]
No.
[00:24:46]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
No, there's not a magical list. And it kind of also, I feel like, depends on what school district you're working with. If you're in a rural school district that doesn't have a lot of resources, they're gonna be quicker to outplace a child just because they don't have as many continuum pieces to go through.
[00:25:05]
And then say you're in a bigger district. They've got a lot more resources, a lot more available to them. Maybe you're now in a more urban area, in a city. They can then hire people in, bring stuff in, and really kind of again go through that ringer of services that's available.
[00:25:26]
For example, I know I'm working with a family right now. They're in a very rural area, and there isn't a whole lot of options left. And the school district is recognizing that very quickly, that this child needs A, B, and C. We're very quickly moving to an alternative placement versus a district that has a lot of things, which is a good thing, right? If you have a lot of resources, that's wonderful. But a lot of times it's more geographically based than it is.
[00:25:51]
A lot of people get mad. They're like, well, my school district doesn't have this. Well, your child may be the only one that needs that particular range of services. And it's not feasible for a school district to have one child in inclusion all by themselves in a classroom with a behaviorist. One, that's not fair to your kid. They don't wanna be stuck in a room by themselves all day. And two, financially, that also doesn't make sense for a school district. So you have to think about it both ways. I don't want my kid to be stuck in a room with one or two children either.
[00:26:34]
Penny Williams:
For sure. One last thing I wanna make sure we talk about before we close, and that is how do parents, what sort of process, what questions do they ask when they're considering an alternative school placement or considering any school really? What things need to be on their radar? What steps do they maybe need to take to make sure that they are making a really informed decision, that that school is going to fit as much as they can know before they actually get into it? Because I know from experience you can't know it all before you get into it, but what can you do to be the most prepared?
[00:27:19]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
You can't. And a lot of times, again, because a lot of those outside placements are more financially based, they're very good at that sales piece. They are wonderful.
[00:27:30]
Penny Williams:
Mm-hmm.
[00:27:31]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
They are. Where a public school is like, we're here. You live here. Come here. Right? So it is a very different perspective.
[00:27:41]
I always cautioned families when they would come barreling in, I need an outside placement. A lot of times I would have parents tour in person. I want you to get in there and see what it's like. Again, when the majority of outplacements, the biggest concern is safety, then you're in a classroom with all children that have had a large concern for some level of safety.
[00:28:12]
And I always kind of, while there are so many positives to some outside placements, and again I placed my child in two outside placements at this point, you have to weigh those balances, right? Because your child may be exposed to some behaviors that they have not seen or done or thought of, but now they can, right? Because we see it every day. But is that worth it for the therapies, the different environment, the different levels of support for your child?
[00:28:32]
So I am a huge advocate of walking through any particular placement that you are considering. You wanna see it in the day, in action, with students. Just doing a little webinar, they're gonna tell you, well, we have staff for behaviors, or we remove this child, or we have a huge reinforcement system. Well, sometimes that reinforcement system looks like a small basket of items in a particular room, and they made it sound like this great Walmart of reinforcements. And you're like, that's not what I thought it was.
[00:29:21]
So I always say make sure that, one, the therapists are what you want. I always ask about turnover too. To me, this particular group of kiddos struggles so much with staff consistency. Every place experiences turnover, but what is your turnover like?
[00:29:46]
I mean, I get it. As America, we are experiencing a ton of turnover everywhere. It's a huge problem. But what is your particular facility like? Is the teacher I meet today still potentially going to be the teacher that my child will have when we have our goodbye party in May? Are you able to retain staff on a long-term basis?
[00:30:10]
The therapies, are they there? What does it look like in person? What do your safety plans, your emergency plans, all those things, what do they look like? And even school safety. A lot of times public schools do a great job with school safety, and with charter schools, I feel like it's a little bit all over the place. So school safety to me is really huge because that's a lifelong skill. Everybody kind of houses it in school safety, but overall safety for when you're out in the community and stuff like that definitely needs to be addressed as well.
[00:30:56]
Academics, I would say, is the other big piece. A lot of times your school district has tons of academics. They have committees that meet about it, all of those things to kind of stay on track. They have a curriculum director, they have a superintendent, right? They're going to trainings. What does your charter school or alternative placement, what does their curriculum look like? How do they build it? How do they monitor it? How do they train new people? And how are they tracking your kid's progress with that piece as well?
[00:31:16]
That is really huge because a lot of times there are a lot of people who think, well, curriculum's curriculum. Well, if your child is doing biology in your school and they switch midyear, sometimes they're not even teaching it over there. And you need to know, especially with an older child, are they gonna lose credit? That's huge. That is a huge piece.
[00:31:53]
Penny Williams:
And your kids' feelings about it too, I think, are always important, especially when we're talking about teens. If they don't have any buy-in in changing schools, changing your school isn't gonna make anything better.
[00:32:04]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
...gonna change. Yeah.
[00:32:06]
Penny Williams:
It's only gonna make it worse.
[00:32:08]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
I mean, buy-in is huge. Even with a little kid, because if you're looking at an outside placement for a small child, that small child has a lot of big feelings usually. And their buy-in is huge. So you walking through, making sure you're comfortable with it is one. You walking through with your child.
[00:32:28]
Because I get that at the end of the day, we're all advocating for better situations for your child academically, physically, emotionally. But switching schools is sometimes really hard. Maybe they do have a friend or a teacher or somebody that's connecting with them, right? It's usually not like they're all out to get them. There's usually those connections. And ripping those off completely is so hard.
[00:32:48]
And again, that's why I think the district making that transition plan is really huge. If I had kids who I knew were maybe going out for six months to a year, those particular staff, I would give them PD days where they could go back out into the community, see those kids, connect with them, talk to them, so they wouldn't feel like they had been shipped off the island, basically.
[00:33:29]
Penny Williams:
Yeah.
[00:33:30]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
Yeah. You don't want that. Or like I said with the hybrid piece, if you have those particular staff that is connected to that child, 99.9 percent of the time staff will work with the district and what they can do to keep that connection going with the child because they're there, again, most teachers are there for the kids. They really, really are.
[00:33:54]
Penny Williams:
For sure. And the only thing I would add to that from personal experience is if you're considering a school, like a private school especially, make sure you know their philosophies. Make sure you read their handbook first. Make sure. We switched to a private school because it was hands-on and small, and we really couldn't swing it, but we were gonna figure it out anyway.
[00:34:18]
And I gave them the entire folder, IEPs, all assessments, diagnoses, everything. It was like this thick. I wanted to be sure that this was gonna be something that they were open to. And in six weeks they told us to leave because they actually had a policy that they did not serve any students with learning differences. But their enrollment was down, so they made an exception, and then they crushed my kid.
[00:34:53]
So I thought I was doing everything, and yet still there was something missing. So I'm always like, every time I get this question, you need to go there, you need to ask questions, you need to share information. You need to get your hands on every single thing you can possibly get your hands on that will inform you about their beliefs and the culture and all of that because it matters too. So if it's not a placement that the school's helping you with, to a behavior school or something like that, and you're just looking at it on your own, you really, really have to dig in and be sure.
[00:35:28]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
I would even say, even if it's district placement, I would also encourage that just because I've had experiences where children had very violent occurrences even in outplacements and still faced criminal charges. Those types of things. A lot of times people say, well, they went to an outplacement. They can't do anything. They're special needs kids. They're special teachers. Those things can follow.
[00:35:48]
Whether you're in an outplacement, charter, et cetera. Charters generally have a much lower tolerance for things, even if they are focused on autism or behavior or things like that. They can sometimes have a very low tolerance. Understanding what their tolerance is is huge. But also if it's district placement, being prepared. Say, well, my child is attacking people on a regular basis. What do you do? Do you call me? Do you send them home? Do you reflect? Do they stay here no matter what? Those types of things.
[00:36:36]
When do you bring in any type of police involvement, stuff like that? Because it does. And everybody's like, well, my child has autism. They're not gonna get arrested. They're not gonna this.
[00:36:49]
Penny Williams:
Hmm. It...
[00:36:50]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
They, it still happens. It still happens. And it's so hard. It's so hard.
[00:36:59]
Penny Williams:
Okay. Yeah, yeah. Well, Dawn, we could talk about this for many more days, I'm sure, not even hours, but days and days. There's so much to think about, and there's so much struggle with our population, our kids, and school. So maybe we'll have a part two again in the future soon to share some more of this.
[00:37:23]
But I really appreciate it. Tell everybody where they can go online to find you and your advocacy work and maybe connect with you and learn more about working with you.
[00:37:33]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
Sure. So I have, just on Facebook, it's Dawn Fleming-Kendall. And same thing with Instagram. I just started a school for education, advocacy, and coaching, and that's literally what it's called, Education, Advocacy and Coaching. But really you can just reach out via email and I can hopefully direct you into the right kind of slot, just because some parents are looking for more advocacy support, some are looking for homeschool, some are looking for that parent coach piece. But yeah, I am really happy to talk to any family that is in need of support.
[00:38:14]
Penny Williams:
I'll link all of that up for you in the show notes, which are at parentingadhdandautism.com, so everybody will have it easily accessible if they're in front of a computer or a device as well. Thank you again for giving us, like, that was more information than I ever knew all 13 years of my kids' schooling.
[00:38:36]
Honestly, we just, it's not shared. It's not readily available. And so I know that this is really gonna change some things for a lot of families who are listening, and that's why we do what we do. So I'm so thankful for you.
[00:38:53]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
And it's so hard. I know a lot of families come into a meeting and people are like, well, don't you know? Don't you know what you want? And I'm like, but this person has a master's degree. I have three master's degrees, and I'm still learning.
[00:39:07]
Penny Williams:
Yeah.
[00:39:08]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
And most of us, I always compare it to my husband, who's such a dad dad, right? He's like a normal dad, right? And he comes into meetings and he's like, I have no idea what is going on. I just let her talk. But there are so many families that, and it's not that they don't love their child or want the best, they just don't know. There are entire degrees dedicated to this. And like you said, we could go on for days and hours about different types of ways to educate your child.
[00:39:37]
Penny Williams:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you for being here and giving us a snapshot, and I encourage everybody to connect with you so that if they need more, they can get more as well. And I will see everybody next time. Take good care.
[00:39:50]
Dawn Fleming-Kendall:
All right. Thank you.