Michelle Pianim [00:00:02]: A lot of times for parents, we go into a school environment once we're fed up. So that team has come to expect that you don't have faith in them and maybe you don't. Okay. But some of this is I need to put expectations when my child starts the year. Let's sit down and talk. Here are the things that I know to be true about my child in school and out of school. And here's what I can offer you in terms of support.

Penny Williams [00:00:28]: Welcome to Beautifully Complex where we unpack what it really means to parent neurodivergent kids with dignity and clarity. I'm Penny Williams and I know firsthand how tough and transformative this journey can be. Let's dive in and discover how to raise regulated, resilient, beautifully complex kids together. Oh, and if you want more support, join our free [email protected] life.

Penny Williams [00:00:59]: Welcome back to Beautifully Complex everyone. I am really excited to have Michelle PM here with me to talk about special education and all of the things IEP and learning differences and advocacy. And I think that advocacy piece is really hard for a lot of parents and it's hard for a lot of our kids too to self advocate. So I'm really looking forward to this conversation and getting your insights, Michelle. But will you start just by letting everybody know who you are and what you do?

Michelle Pianim [00:01:37]: Sure. I'm Michelle P. And M. And I would consider myself a career special educator. So I just am about to hit my 24th year in education. Started out as a teacher, eventually became a principal, worked for the superintendent in D.C. in the Department of Special Ed and then went on to start my own consulting business which is very much school facing and so supporting schools with developing a special ed culture that includes parents that maintains compliance and gets our kids growing through into whatever their desired outcome is. And so I try to work really hard to help my schools understand just what it looks like from a parent's perspective, but also what it looks like to have a really high functioning special ed program where parents have hope and inclusive practices for their children.

Michelle Pianim [00:02:37]: I'm excited to be here with you.

Michelle PM [00:02:39]: Thank you. Yeah, you use the word culture and that is standing out to me because we haven't in general fostered a culture of inclusion, you know, in our history. When I was in school, all the special ed kids were, you know, in the trailers out back and completely separated. They rode a separate bus, they had a separate lunchtime, everything was separate. And I think we're still dragging some of that with us. Right. And we need to change it yeah, no, absolutely.

Michelle Pianim [00:03:12]: I mean, so there's two parts to this. I had a school leader who is also a former. She was my former supervisor. So we know each other well. And she said to me just two weeks ago, she just took a CEO role at a charter school. And she said, michelle, the number one order of business is getting those kids out of the parking lot. She said, we have three trailers where the autistic program is housed, and it's on our land. Right.

Michelle Pianim [00:03:45]: It's not in the building. It's in temporaries. Right. And I said, oh, my God, I cringe thinking about if it's snow on the ground and they're transitioning to lunch or, you know, the weather. And she said, number one order of business, get those kids out of those temporaries. Like, get our babies back in the building with us. And I just thought, it's 20, 25. I remember being in high school and all of the special ed classes were on one hallway that was not super well lit.

Michelle Pianim [00:04:17]: Classrooms had no windows.

Keri Bonnet [00:04:19]: Yeah.

Michelle Pianim [00:04:20]: And I wasn't super aware of special education language at that time, even though my grandmother was a teacher. We used to call them Eddies. We didn't even have any understanding of how offensive that would be. And I'm thinking, okay, we surely have made growth now. And there are little things that continue to remind me, like you said, that we are maybe not necessarily functioning and inclusive. Stuck. Yep, stuck.

Keri Bonnet [00:04:45]: Yeah.

Michelle PM [00:04:45]: And even, you know, minor divergent kid graduated high school. Oh, my gosh. Almost four years ago. Maybe now.

Michelle Pianim [00:04:52]: Okay.

Michelle PM [00:04:52]: And, you know, not so long ago, and there was a special ed hall. You know, it was still separate. It was in the building. Yeah, some of it. But I remember his special ed study hall was in a temporary. You had to go outside and go to it, you know, and it's like it just gave me flashbacks of when I was in high school. The middle school was next door and I was going over. It was some sort of class volunteer thing.

Michelle PM [00:05:22]: And I was working in a special ed class back then. And it was like that. Right. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, we're still doing this the same in so many ways. So how do we make change? How can, you know, one singular parent, one singular advocate start to chip away at that and make change?

Michelle Pianim [00:05:44]: Yeah. So that's a good question. I think it's sometimes hard to see, depending on the school, where the school's located in the metropolitan city, or is it in the suburbs? Is it in a rural environment where you don't have a lot of resources. I mean, you have to look at that first. But I think, you know that old saying, the hit dog barks. Whatever you draw attention to, the loudest thing is the thing that you focus on. And I always tell my parents, one, get everything in writing. So even if you have a conversation in person, do a follow up.

Michelle Pianim [00:06:18]: So thank you for stopping and talking to me today. Here's what I took away from our conversation. I think when parents ask for something, just like we've been instructed in kind of the medical world to say, if you're refusing that test, I would like a document in my file. I think the same thing happens for children, right? We have to say, like, if you're refusing this testing, if you're refusing, you know, kind of the things that I am asking for to see, you know, can we collect more data? Can we do xyz? I want that in writing, right? I want something that supports the why. And so I would say there's two parts of this. There's the asking and advocating, and then there's the other part of what are your rights as a parent? And really being clear and upfront in those meetings and saying, like, these are my goals for my children. And do these goals that you all are proposing align with that? A really realistic conversation around that? I don't know that parents truly understand that they are the expert Also in their children's world, they've taken care of them all. Educators aren't an expert in special ed.

Michelle Pianim [00:07:25]: You can come to the table with as much data as the school team is, you know, I think because it.

Michelle PM [00:07:32]: Doesn'T often feel like we're part of the team, you know, and it's hard to rectify that. Like, when I would show up at a school meeting, it was just me. My husband couldn't necessarily get off work. Most of the time. It wasn't feasible. And so it was me and then a room full of school personnel. And how do you walk into that situation and not feel like you're not really part of the team? You know, it feels. And maybe that's a good question.

Michelle PM [00:08:02]: How do we walk in and create this culture that you had talked about where we can be part of the team? How do we set that up?

Michelle Pianim [00:08:14]: Yeah. So I think one thing parents should do prior to you even walking into that meeting, right. Is making sure that you are equipped with everything that's going to be discussed. So if you're reviewing an evaluation, if you're reviewing new goals, then as a parent, you have a right to say, I need that in advance because I need to share that with my pediatrician. I need to share that with my advocate. I need to talk to my husband about that or my child's, you know, family members. And then also, you know, I tell parents all the time, in this new age of technology, run that report through chat gbt and say, explain this like a fourth or fifth grader, right? Even if you are an attorney, even if you are one of the most highly qualified people in the United States, some of that language is foreign if you are not specifically working in special ed. So run that through some type of technology and say, explain to me what the outcomes will be for my child, what these goals mean for my child.

Michelle Pianim [00:09:18]: What is an example of a problem or, you know, a math problem or a reading task that would be applicable to this goal. Explain to me all these things, and then also give me some questions to ask the team. You know, asking for prompts. Give me five questions to put in front of the team that will help me dissect if these goals are appropriate for my child. Yeah, right. So just coming equipped with some of that and saying, okay, I need this 10 days in advance because I need to be able to review it. And then coming in with your questions, your notes, and all those things and asking the team, I'd like to review last year's goals. I need to make sure that we made mastery, to make sure that we're closing this gap that we are seeing.

Michelle Pianim [00:10:03]: And I also want to see current data. Where are we on our benchmark assessments? How did they score in statewide assessments? Did they make the growth that we are expecting based on the goals that we proposed? Those are very important questions to ask, to show up in a meeting and say, like, hey, listen, we are all here for Michelle. And Michelle's goal, her personal goal is xyz. I need to make sure this IEP aligns with that.

Keri Bonnet [00:10:29]: Yeah, yeah.

Michelle PM [00:10:30]: And that data, like, it's lacking, honestly. You know, my kid went through 13 years of school. Never once was I given data. And if I asked for it, it was like, oh, well, give us a month to put that together. You know? And so I was constantly like, we're not meeting this goal. We're not measuring. Like, we're still struggling, and there was nothing. So I don't want to use the term holding their feet to the fire, but, like, how do we say, I need the data? We all need the data.

Michelle PM [00:11:04]: It's not just me, the parent, but we all need to be seeing if what we have determined is going to help this Kid get educated and learn is actually doing that or not.

Michelle Pianim [00:11:17]: Yeah. I mean, where I currently live, right. I'll say this. My daughter, who was my youngest child, who is not in any way has a special education diagnosis or a neurodivergence. She comes home with this Dibble's data, right? Every trimester or every, you know, three times a year. And you know, sometimes I even send it to my teacher friends and I'm like, is she on target? Like, what does this mean? And I remember people saying, like, so you've dibbled and now what? Right? Yeah, what does this mean? And so I think it's important to say, like, I know that you asked for my child to be on time and be fed in the morning and not be late for those three days in September or October or January or February. Where is that? When do I get a copy of that? And so being really proactive around paying attention to. You took an exam today.

Michelle Pianim [00:12:09]: Okay. So do you know how you did? Did your teacher give you that? Can you email that to me? Because I need that for the IEP meeting. And so sometimes not waiting until right before the IEP meeting or at the IEP meeting makes sense. Sometimes it's not possible, but I think asking like, hey, I know my child took some benchmark assessments and you're using that to determine things for your school. I'm using that to determine things for my child and just kind of saying, I'm expecting that to come home every time. And again when you are present and you're asking and it doesn't get fulfilled. You know, sometimes I even myself, I don't tell schools who I am when my children are there. I'm like, I don't tell them that I'm a special ed consultant and that I know all these things.

Michelle Pianim [00:12:50]: But when I ask for something and it's not fulfilled, I start looking on the district's website, who's the area superintendent, who's the executive director, who oversees this. So that when I send this email and say, Last month on June 15, I asked for this data and 30 days later, I've yet to receive it. And so I just want to know, should I expect Mr. John Smith to be helping me get that data?

Keri Bonnet [00:13:16]: Yeah.

Michelle Pianim [00:13:17]: Right. So we're going outside of the school now because you have a history of ignoring your parents. And so I usually put that on record. I don't trust anything in an in person conversation without following up.

Michelle PM [00:13:29]: Yeah, for sure. Always get it in writing or always check back in and say, this is how I understood the outcomes of this meeting and who's gonna do what and how we're going our word. And that gives them the opportunity to say, no, you're misunderstanding. And it gives you the opportunity to get it writing right, that follow through.

Michelle Pianim [00:13:50]: I think the biggest tool is diligence, right? Like, we have to stay the course. We can't say, oh, my God, they didn't respond in a certain time, so I'm gonna drop it also.

Keri Bonnet [00:14:00]: Yeah.

Michelle PM [00:14:01]: And it's hard. It's hard for parents. They don't wanna be that parent. They don't want to rock the boat. They don't want to look like they think that their kid deserves more than other kids or any of these things.

Michelle Pianim [00:14:15]: Right.

Michelle PM [00:14:15]: That get in our way. So it's really tough emotionally for a lot of parents. And then, you know, if you're a parent with anxiety or like me, social anxiety, like, I was sick to my stomach just going to a meeting with people I didn't know, right? So I was like, yes, off kilter already.

Michelle Pianim [00:14:33]: Yes.

Michelle PM [00:14:34]: But then you focus on your kid and you get to a place where you're just like, all right, this is what my kid needs. This is who my kid needs me to be, and this is how I have to show up for them and making it about our kids again, sort of refocusing there.

Penny Williams [00:14:52]: If you've been listening for a while, you're familiar with my Back to School Prep week, where I set neurodivergent kids and their families up for success, right? When the school year starts. There's another podcast that will help you navigate the rest of the school year. It's called Opportunity Gap, and it's all about special education.

Michelle PM [00:15:12]: Let's be real. All Those acronyms alone, IEP, 504FBA, BIP, can be overwhelming.

Penny Williams [00:15:20]: All you want is for your kid.

Michelle PM [00:15:22]: To have the opportunity for success, right?

Penny Williams [00:15:24]: You'll hear from special educators, child psychologists, and other learning experts who know their stuff and give you realistic advocacy tools.

Michelle PM [00:15:35]: I listened to Opportunity Gap and I was blown away.

Penny Williams [00:15:39]: Julian Saavedra and his guests break it down in simple terms, highlight where to focus your energy, and give you simple.

Michelle PM [00:15:48]: Steps to advocate efficiently. So if you've ever walked out of.

Penny Williams [00:15:52]: A school meeting wondering what just happened, go search for Opportunity Gap in your podcast app.

Michelle PM [00:16:00]: That's Opportunity Gap. I want to talk a little bit more about data. I want to backtrack just a second, because you talked a lot about testing and benchmarks and things like that. What other data can parents use? Or what other data is appropriate to use when we're looking at goal setting and accommodations.

Keri Bonnet [00:16:29]: Yeah.

Michelle Pianim [00:16:30]: So. Good question. I think if you're going to the IEP meeting and you see these, you know, you've gotten the document in advance and you see these goals and you're not sure where they came from. Right. Those are great questions to ask. But prior to even the IEP meeting or even after, throughout the course of the year. So you're going to meet once a year for this iep, Right. Every three years for a triennial or eligibility.

Michelle Pianim [00:16:54]: But throughout the course of the year, you want to say, like, you've given me a goal on the IEP that's due July 14, 2026. Say we had the IEP meeting today. @ some point, you are expecting that they are progress monitoring. Right. They're maintaining some sort of data that supports either we're progressing. You're getting a progress report, Is it not introduced? Are we not progressing? All those things? So where is this data coming from? Progress reports are a really good collection point. Right. You should get one every quarter that's focused solely on special ed.

Michelle Pianim [00:17:30]: It should have the goals and whether it's introduced and how they're doing in that. That's one piece of data. Other pieces like benchmark assessments, map a net, things like that. Statewide assessments will be one piece of data. But I would also ask that special ed teacher, so what assessment or what pre or post test are you giving that indicates growth on this goal? If you're spending time with my child in the classroom, out of the classroom, are you taking notes? Are you submitting something? What are you collecting and where is that found?

Keri Bonnet [00:18:04]: Yeah, yeah.

Michelle PM [00:18:05]: And things like examples of schoolwork, maybe. You know, one thing that we struggled with as far as, like, is this helping? Are we making progress? On the school side of things was help with executive functioning, planning and organizing. Right. Using some sort of calendar planner, which my kid never did, and nobody could make him right. And making him wasn't the point anyway. But, like, that was something that I would just get. It's ongoing. It's ongoing.

Michelle PM [00:18:34]: Like those progress reports that you mentioned that come with a report card every quarter. Every goal just said ongoing every time.

Michelle Pianim [00:18:40]: And.

Michelle PM [00:18:40]: And I'm like, is it like, is there progress? This doesn't tell me anything. Like, I even just stopped opening them. They were pointless because they weren't telling me anything.

Michelle Pianim [00:18:52]: Yeah. I think you can ask each teacher, you know, you can say, like, can I have a couple of work samples that they've done over the last couple of weeks? I just want to see you Know if I'm getting the same thing at home that you're getting in school.

Keri Bonnet [00:19:04]: Yeah.

Michelle Pianim [00:19:05]: Something as easy as that. Right?

Keri Bonnet [00:19:07]: Yeah.

Michelle Pianim [00:19:07]: Like when I'm doing homework with them, I'm noticing their handwriting, or you can have some sort of area of concern. And the teacher usually will say, yeah, let me show you. You know, hopefully they're saying that, and you are just putting that in a folder, collecting and saying, do I personally see improvement? Yeah.

Keri Bonnet [00:19:26]: Yeah.

Michelle PM [00:19:27]: And I learned, like, in the upper grades, middle school, and high school, when there was more than one teacher, they always wanted to send a representative of the team. And after a couple of those, I was like, no, we need to find a time where everybody can be here. Because things get lost in translation from one teacher to another. They might add their own personal opinions about things and color what they're sharing.

Michelle Pianim [00:19:50]: Right.

Michelle PM [00:19:50]: And if that information even got to every teacher, it was a miracle because they're so overworked and there's. Right. Like, there's so many obstacles in the way of having a special education system. That's actually what kids need and deserve. And I get that. And it is part of the equation, even though it's not supposed to be. But it's like, then how do we keep going forward with that? How do we navigate where we are right now, what the possibilities are right now, but also ensure that our kid is getting the best education that they can? And it can be such a struggle. And I think one of the things, too, that I learned to do early on was to come at it with a very collaborative tone.

Michelle PM [00:20:36]: I need your help. You honestly need my help? Because I know this kid. I live with this kid.

Michelle Pianim [00:20:42]: Right.

Michelle PM [00:20:43]: And how can we do this together?

Michelle Pianim [00:20:46]: Correct.

Keri Bonnet [00:20:46]: Yeah.

Michelle Pianim [00:20:47]: And really saying, like, so you're. If you're having issues or you have some questions or concerns, call me. I always tell parents, sometimes it's not the what, it's the how. And a lot of times for parents, we go into a school environment, once we're fed up, we're already on 10. And so that team has come to expect that you don't have faith in them, and maybe you don't. Okay.

Michelle PM [00:21:15]: Right.

Michelle Pianim [00:21:16]: But some of this is I need to put expectations when my child starts the year. Let's sit down and talk. Here are the things that I know to be true about my child in school and out of school. And here's what I can offer you in terms of support.

Keri Bonnet [00:21:30]: Yeah.

Michelle PM [00:21:30]: It's so important to be proactive, because when you're not proactive, you lose months of education you lose months. It takes, you know, two to four weeks for the teacher to be like, oh, there's something going on here and this is a struggle. And then, you know, maybe there needs to be evaluations and then that's a 60 day clock. And like you lose money months if you don't approach it at the beginning. And I think a lot of parents fear giving the wrong impression of their kid or coming in and basically it sounding like their kid's going to be a troublemaker or really difficult. And we don't want to do that. So how do we strike the balance there between the two with being proactive, making sure that we sort of hit the ground running, but we're not sending the message that you're going to have to work much harder with my kid or my kid's going to cause you problems or I'm going to be, you know, in your face all year, anything like that.

Michelle Pianim [00:22:29]: Yeah. So I think there's a couple of things, right, if your child is starting a new school or a new grade, what I would do as a parent of a child who has a 504 plan or IEP, I would email that teacher, start of school or before school and say, hey, I'm Michelle's mom, I just want to give you some background. I'm attaching her iep. I love to sit down and talk with you if there are any conference times available, just to kind of talk about what went well last year, see if we can continue that and then, you know, give you, give you some of the ins and outs so you don't have to learn her, you know, just purely by yourself in the first few weeks of school. And I'd offer a home visit or even a zoom, or I can come in and meet with you or you can meet her. So I'd be open to that initial like, hey, I want success for you and her. Right? Yeah, this is what this looks like. And I would be honest, I would say here are, you know, a couple of triggers if she has some.

Michelle Pianim [00:23:32]: And here are some things that we realized in quarter four, quarter three of last year that really work well. Do you have a system that this might be incorporated in? Yeah, so just being more curious, right. The way we would be with our children is like if we want to know something, we start asking various unassuming questions. I would say to that teacher the same thing. I would just get very curious about their method and if they have taught other children with a similar profile what's worked for them and we don't know Everything, but we know some and we can share strategies. The other thing that I would say is that I notice, and I don't know if this is a thing for you, but I notice that parents tend to get more. A little bit more frantic or anxious in these gateway grades. So eighth grade.

Michelle Pianim [00:24:19]: Right. I'm running out of time. My child is graduating soon and I don't know that they are gonna be ready for graduation for 12th grade. And so we start seeing the. I need a meeting. I need a meeting. I need to know what they're learning. I need to know what they're doing.

Michelle Pianim [00:24:36]: I need to know all those things. And so if your child has an IEP in these, you know, high school, 14 and up grades, secondary transition is super important. Right. What are this child's goals? What are this parent's goals? What's the school's goals? So anticipating more meeting time, more expiration. But I do see that they're gets a little bit more of an uptick in. Where are we? We're running out of time. I'm losing my child. They're going to go to college or even a trade soon, and I don't know that they have skills.

Michelle Pianim [00:25:10]: Yeah, right.

Michelle PM [00:25:11]: Or if elementary school was this hard, middle school is going to kill us. If middle school is this hard, high school is going to kill us. You know that.

Michelle Pianim [00:25:19]: Are we going to graduate from high school based on what I know to be true?

Keri Bonnet [00:25:23]: Yeah.

Michelle Pianim [00:25:23]: About third through eighth grade. Right. Or are we looking at an extended. Do we need until 22? What are my child's options? Right. What if my child is electing not to go to college? Or maybe they, you know, the parent has a different goal for them. What are my options within the district even.

Keri Bonnet [00:25:42]: Yeah.

Michelle PM [00:25:43]: And really asking about those options, you know, there were times where I asked for things that I thought for sure were going to be a no, but I felt like I had to ask because they felt like the right thing, like in high school, going to part time in person and part time online at home. Because that environment for eight hours a day was traumatizing my kid and me. And, you know, and so. And I was like, you know, they have said no to far, far less than this. This is not going to be a conversation. I win. And then they were like, oh, yeah, let's explore that. Because at that point they saw that.

Michelle PM [00:26:21]: And I have to say too, we had an ally in administration at that point and I was very intentional in creating that. Right. I needed somebody who really got my kid, and that was an important thing. And that's what I tell parents all the time. Like first thing, when you enter a new school building, you've got to cultivate an ally. You've got to cultivate someone who your kid can go to when they're freaking out. And they're not gonna say, but you're supposed to be in class, they're going to say, how can I help you? What do you need? Right. We've got to find those people for our kids.

Michelle Pianim [00:26:56]: Yeah. I mean, just to touch on that. I think you're absolutely right. I also think that we need to find that for ourselves. We parents show up very emotional when we feel that our child has missed something that other children have access to that they should have gotten something that other children have, have received, you know, or that we're running out of time or something has happened with the iep. A lot of times we need to bring either an advocate or a family member or someone who equally. Who knows that child just as well, but can speak from a very non emotional space. Like, you know, these are our goals, these are Michelle's goals.

Michelle Pianim [00:27:37]: You know, as a student and as a school, we see you trying, but here's where we feel like there's a gap that has to be bridged. Oftentimes one's parents are emotionally entwined and they don't have the best interest for my child or they're missing this. There is this tense meeting that happens that almost you could lose your ally, you could lose your team that way. And a lot of times you need that team. They are spending as much time with their child as you are. Right. You need them to be on where pushing kids to and through. Right.

Michelle Pianim [00:28:12]: And keeping at the back of my mind, Michelle is saying she wants to do something with her hands, like what do we have here? Or you know, just whatever the. The thing is, she wants to be a nurse. Okay, so we have an allied health. Let's see if we can get her a mentor who's already gone through that program. You know, having someone who has kind of a top of the mind. What are some of the ways even if they're not ready for this, what's the first step? And like you said, it may not always be the staff.

Keri Bonnet [00:28:40]: Yeah, yeah.

Michelle PM [00:28:42]: Or it could be, you know, the custodian is the ally. It could be any friendly adult in the building can be your kid's ally. Before we close, I want to just ask you really quickly. I know there are going to be parents listening who feel like they've hit a wall. Oh yeah, they've just hit the wall and they don't know what to do anymore. Do you have some words of hope that you can offer? Can you give us, like, the first one tiny step that they can take?

Michelle Pianim [00:29:13]: Yeah. So if you feel like you've hit a wall and you're really, really frustrated, you're worried for your child and or don't feel like the team is really hearing you, first thing I would do is gather all your documents as far back as you can go, every eval, every iep, every piece of data, request, a cumulative file even. And I would say look up advocacy groups or special education groups in your city, town, area, state, whatever it is, and reach out to them and just see, like, how can I get more support for my child and what does this look like? And they may be able to, even if they are out of your price range or booked, completely booked up, they may be able to offer resources that your school may not give you. So I would say that the first thing is to gather all your documentation and then look up some resources, start talking to some folks.

Michelle PM [00:30:09]: Good advice. Good advice. Michelle, will you tell everybody where they can go online to learn more about you, the work you do, to connect with you, to learn more from you, all that good stuff? Sure.

Michelle Pianim [00:30:21]: So you can always find me on my website, which is fairgreenconsulting.com I do a couple little parent rants on Tik Tok from time to time. I'm the Olivia Pope of special ed over there, and I have a decoding special education series that you can be linked through my website to join. It has a newsletter for parents as well as some courses on getting more familiar with special education topics.

Michelle PM [00:30:49]: Nice. And I will link all of that up in the show notes for everybody. So it's really easy to get to. And that'[email protected] 325. Michelle, I think we could talk all day about this. There's so much more to share. But this, I think, has been a great sort of springboard for parents who are feeling stuck or feeling down about having to continue, continue to fight so hard. And I really appreciate that.

Michelle PM [00:31:20]: I appreciate the work that you're doing, and it's been really lovely to chat with you.

Michelle Pianim [00:31:24]: Yeah, I loved being here. And as the school year starts, just keep up the fight. You're your child's biggest advocate.

Michelle PM [00:31:32]: Yeah, 100%. Thank you so much. I will see everybody next time. Take good care.

Penny Williams [00:31:42]: I see you. You're doing hard and meaningful work and you don't have to do it alone. If you found this episode helpful, share it with someone who needs it and leave a quick review so others can find this support too. When you're ready for next steps, the Regulated Kids Project is here with the tools, coaching and community to help you raise a more regulated, resilient child. Get more in info at regulatedkids.

Michelle Pianim [00:32:09]: Com.