Robbin McManne 0:03

The last part of your brain to grow from age seven on is the prefrontal cortex which is responsible for reasoning, rational thought problem solving, emotional regulation, all of the good stuff, but it doesn't finish growing until mid to late 20s.

Penny Williams 0:20

Welcome to the parenting ADHD Podcast, where I share insights and strategies on raising kids with ADHD straight from the trenches. I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author, ADHD a Holic and mindset Mama, honored to guide you on the journey of raising your a typical kid. Let's get started. Welcome back to the parenting ADHD podcast. Today, I have Robbin McManne with me, a parenting coach, and we're going to talk about how to stop yelling at your kids. She is the author of the book, The yelling cure. And I'm really excited to get her insights on all things, parental yelling, because it's so easy to fall into that trap. And none of us want to and I think we all know by now that not yelling at our kids, things turn out a lot better. So I'm so glad that you're here Robin to share some wisdom and insights on this topic. Will you just start by introducing yourself to our audience?

Robbin McManne 1:28

Thank you so much for having me. Yes. So first and foremost, I am a mom of a child with ADHD. So I understand all of this. And it's really ADHD, in part with some other things that my son also struggles with that has really brought me to this place. And I come from being a really angry overwhelmed mom, who just did not understand why my kid was acting the way he was acting. And yeah, I had a tough birth with him. And then he was just a tough kid. And, of course, I thought it was all my fault. And I didn't understand it. And I also didn't want to label him. So it was a really tough go at the start. So for me, I come from being that really angry, overwhelmed mom, and I was able to really heal the, I guess the wounds in me when I started working with somebody who was a parenting coach. And so that's why I do the work that I do now. Because it makes such an incredible change in me. Because at the end of the day, I can't change my child. As you all know, I can only change me. So that has led me to this career as being a parenting coach, and I work with, parents from all over the world. I have my book called The yelling cure. And I also have a show called parenting our future. That's my podcast. So yeah, I am dedicated to this work and helping parents navigate this really tough job of parenting that we do.

Penny Williams 1:29

Yeah, it's so tough in general. But when we add complex kids, we add such complexity to parenting, the normal rules just don't apply anymore. And you really have to discard everything you think about parenting and sort of rewrite a rulebook just for each of your kids. So what do I think we should do? Anyway, we should be parenting individuals. That's a whole nother topic, we could talk about it another time. It's so incredibly easy for us to get wrapped up in yelling, when things don't work, when our kids don't respond, or react, or follow our instructions. And we're wired in kind to respond in kind, we're wired to respond in kind. And so we're automatically going to have this instinct to yell back or to, give them the same attitude back. And so how do we put pause on that and respond in a better way?

Robbin McManne 3:52

Well, you said so much there. So yes, you do get really bad attitude. Sometimes you get yelling and screaming at you, you get demanding attitude, and you also get refusal to listen, and refusal to even hear your requests, right. And so the first thing that I tell parents is you've got to just, you really said the word you said, pause. But you have to pause, and then you have to do a couple things in that pause. So just stop for a second. Okay, and that takes practice. So I'm not saying this is going to come easily to you, and it's not going to feel natural. Yeah. But you've got to fight for this, right? Because you want to fight for your kid too. Right? You don't want that relationship with your child. This relationship. We want it to last forever, not just until they're 18 or 19. When they're, when they're gone. So you first want to stop for a second. Remind yourself that this behavior is not personal. It's not about you. So it's not about you at all this is your child struggling with something or in the case where you've asked Ask them, and they haven't answered you. They're just completely consumed in their own little world. So we need to respect that, too. So one is, we've got a pause, we've got to not take it personally. And the pause, and this space really puts a space between what is happening in front of us with our kids, and what is happening inside of us with us. Because oftentimes, we react based on what we are feeling in that moment, right? If I'm having the best day ever, and I feel good, I look great. Life is good. And my son comes up to me, and he's in some kind of turmoil. I am much more likely to say, Oh, baby, Okay, come here. It Yes, I see you're having such a hard time right now. But if I'm already overwhelmed, and I have just, had something happen, that was frustrating or overwhelming for me, or whatever, whatever, you get it. And then my kid comes to me, and it's just like the icing on the cake, or the straw, the last straw, and I will like, let it out on my kid, right? And so when you put that pause in place, you get to decide in that moment, am I going to show up for my kid the way I know I want to, or am I going to react from the place that I'm in. And sometimes you need a moment to just like, center yourself, take a breath, calm yourself down. Because this is too important, this relationship with your child is too important. And his behavior or her behavior is just them saying I need help. You don't know how to do it in different way.

Penny Williams 6:37

Yes, my parenting mantra in my head all the time is your child isn't giving you a hard time your child is having a hard time. Oh, that's what I think during my pause right here. It's not personal, just like you said. And I love that you brought up teasing apart with our stuff and our kids stuff. Because I was that parent for so long. I did not even think about it just wasn't on my radar, to think about the fact that my own anxiety would play into my responses to my kids, or what I was asking them to do or not to do. And I really have to be very mindful. Is this a problem for them? Or is it only a problem for me? And a lot of times that our kids are intense, it's a problem for them, too, because they do want to feel good, and do good. And they can't when things are going awry for them, right? So, that's a big piece of it, too, I think.

Robbin McManne 7:34

And imagine if every time you were upset as an adult, every time you were upset, and you went to your husband or your partner, and you said like I just like I don't know what to do with myself. I'm really upset right now. I don't know how to handle this thing. And he got mad at you or she got mad at you and yelled right back at you and Zara, time for this. What are you talking about? Just, just be quiet and get out of here. Can you imagine? Feel? That's what we're doing to our kids sometimes? No, we don't mean to. But that's what it's like.

Penny Williams 8:04

Yeah, that's such a good example. I mean, we really have to think about it. Like, how would you speak to your friend or a colleague or a family member, like an adult family member? That's the way you should be speaking to your kids to, there are people. They're not just a miniature versions of us that are supposed to be just like us. They're their own person.

Robbin McManne 8:26

Oh, exactly. And by the way, we don't get the kids that we want we get the kids we need. And so that's that's the opposite of who we are. It's exactly what happened. In my case, like the opposite.

Penny Williams 8:40

Yeah. So many times he runs in families in it. When you have ADHD as a parent, it really adds another even level of complexity. But a lot of us don't have ADHD. And we're very different. And we have to really put aside what life is like for us how our brain works, how school went for us, and think about the brain that our kid has and what it's like for them. And the fact that it can be totally, totally different.

Robbin McManne 9:09

Well, it's really interesting what you just said there, and I just feel compelled to say this. One of the problems that I had in my parenting was I didn't feel heard. And so I can trace that back now to my childhood, when my dad wasn't listening to me. And guess what? My dad 100% had ADHD. So I took his ADHD as him not listening to me and not caring about what I had to say, and not valuing my voice or my thoughts or my ideas. And then when I had my son Parker, I felt the exact same way. And so I'm yelling at him like, I'm the boss. Now you better listen to me now. And see really yelling at the wrong person. And now when I see that they both had ADHD, I mean, how interesting is that? Yeah.

Penny Williams 9:58

And our kids, show us What's going on for us like what it's bringing up from our past? Or what we have to deal with that we haven't quite worked through yet. Our kids are really good. shining a light on that stuff, right? Well, yeah.

Robbin McManne 10:12

Because if you weren't mad about it, it's not an issue, right? If it doesn't trigger intense emotion, then it's not a trigger for you. It's there isn't more there. But if it is, it's really your invitation to say, Okay, I gotta look at this, why do I get so mad? When this little thing happens? or big thing happens, whatever it is, like no judgement, if it's bigger little, but what is that about for me? And I think we have to question, sort of sit back and say, okay, like, why am I acting this way? And also what's going on with my kid, too, right?

Penny Williams 10:42

Yeah, you really have to think about both in those moments when you're trying not to yell and explode. Yeah. There's so much to consider. And it all matters a great deal.

Robbin McManne 10:54

Well, and I would really say that's the next step. Right? So once you've taken that moment, and you've really paused and you've sort of checked in with yourself, right? The next part is to get curious, right? Because I know without a shadow of a doubt, and Penny, I think you do, too, that our kids are not going out of their way to manipulate us to drive us crazy to try to, just get their way. Absolutely. Maybe they need something and maybe you can look at it as them trying to get their way, but they are just trying to communicate with us. But they don't know how yet. And so we need to get curious and get to what's actually driving the behavior. Because sometimes our kids will ask for what they need and what they want in the most unlovable ways. Because they don't have a fully grown brain, they can't articulate their feelings and needs, they don't understand them. Right. And it's up to us to help them, not to punish them to make them learn. It's to help them it's to teach them

Penny Williams 11:55

And so many of our kids with ADHD really struggle with emotional communication, and awareness. And so they can't, as you said, always tell us what's going on for them, or they can't process it and be able to regulate, if they haven't identified it as an issue, right? Or, or they know, I'm gonna get in trouble for this behavior. Or they know, this is not how I wanted to talk to my mom, but they still don't have those skills yet yet to communicate and regulate yet.

Robbin McManne 12:27

Exactly. And I think we have to look to what brain science tells us that, our kids aren't grown with a fully grown brain, until they're seven years old, they live in their emotional brain. So they really express everything through emotion. And they're really comfortable expressing emotion because they're not like us where we have, where it's not socially acceptable to do that, and have a meltdown in the middle of target or wherever you are. And we because we are older. And the last part of your brain to grow from age seven on is the prefrontal cortex, which is responsible for reasoning, rational thought, problem solving, emotional regulation, all of the good stuff, but it doesn't finish growing until mid to late 20s. Yeah, first of all, it's good news. You've got lots of time. But the flip side is, is that your child just can't actually do what you're asking yet. So just help them we're here to support them and help them not punish them and put them down and criticize them.

Penny Williams 13:26

Yeah. Because so often that behavior that we're seeing that feels personal isn't, you already mentioned quit taking it personally. But they're not showing like their true negative character, or they're not disrespectful kids, they're not oppositional kids. They have what looks like disrespect and opposition on occasion, maybe frequently for some, because there's some lagging skill or unmet need or some struggle that they're having, because they want to do well. So if they could, they would write Absolutely,

Robbin McManne 14:05

and this really is just about the fact that their brain works differently. So how can you treat a child whose brain works differently in an unlovable way, I'll tell you what, they already feel bad about themselves. They already thought about themselves, they already know that there are other and then you add on, how their parents did. And so yelling just takes you further and further away from finding out what's really going on. And I want to also say, that we deserve some empathy for us to like we have to take care of us. Because yes, even with all that I've said it's still really hard. There are times where my son when he's in a good mood, which is lovely to see. lovely to see. It is non stop talking. Yeah, and it is hard sometimes to stay interested. Although I really do try. It's hard to listen to it all. Sometimes they'll talk to other people, and I'm just there. Sometimes when he's mad, he'll just go on and on and on and on and on. And that's hard to withstand, like, yeah, it's not about me, but I'm losing my patience. So like, I just want to recognize it's really hard to write.

Penny Williams 15:18

Yeah, yeah. And sometimes, it triggers us and we have to just take a break, we have to just say, I can't help you right now until we're all calmer. Let's go off by ourselves, get calm, do what we need to do. And then let's come back and talk about this. Yeah, because they can't problem solve, and you can't problem solve, when you're that emotional, your thinking brain is offline.

Robbin McManne 15:38

Exactly. And your brain is stuck. And a couple things you can do to help them is to say, Okay, come on, let's walk and talk about it, like, snap their brain out of it, you can make them move, right? Give them something to eat, right? Give them something crunchy, or something chewy, that'll help snap their brain out of it. But then also, I know all those things. And it was just the other day, my son was so mad about something. We had to wait in line to get electric scooters. Okay. And it wasn't that long of a line. But he just couldn't handle it, couldn't handle it. And he was mad, and he was like, went off. And he was swearing. And I'm like, you just can't swear, because we're in public, right? And there's other people around us and stuff like that. And my husband and I were just looking at each other, just like sort of helplessly, right. And I just turned to him. And I wanted to just I'm going to be honest, I wanted to just scream at him and just tell you to shut up. When you shut up and stop being such a jerk. That's what I wanted to say. But instead, with all my might, with all my damn said, and I said, this is so hard for you, isn't it? And I wasn't, I wasn't met with Shay here, right? Mom? It really is hard. He's like, No, no, no, no. And then expletive, it's hard for me. Or it was like, shut up, or I don't want to talk to you. And like, there's nothing I can do, he is stuck in that brain. And it's not personal, because I can see he is like, it's like hell on earth for him. He just can't handle it. There's nothing that I can say and do other than not hold it against him. And just, talk to him later, like, Hey, buddy, I just gotta let you know. It's not cool to swear when there's other people around and there's kids around, you can do better than that. But if you're really upset, I get it. I get it.

Penny Williams 17:25

Yeah. And maybe to talking about what do you think might help you the next time that happens? What can I do to help? Better? Is there some tool that we could bring with us to help you, something to occupy him while he's waiting? Or, there's always something at least to try the next time. Like, obviously, they're once they're stuck, and they fallen off the cliff, they just have to recover. There's nothing that we're going to do or say, that's going to make that better, right in the thick of the moment. That's not the teaching moment. But no later, we can offer Well, what do you think might help? Next time you have to wait in a line like that, and yeah, there's so many opportunities that we squander, because our own frustration, just bubbles to the surface and, flying out, but yeah, that's such a good example, too, because I think every parent listening has been through that

Robbin McManne 18:20

Totally. And, I want to say to that, what I prefer to do when I'm in my higher brain, and I've got my own rational thought, and is to anticipate that right to anticipate Oh, okay, he's not going to like this, because there's going to be online, right? So I already know. And so I've already got something in my own backpack of, tricks, and tools and stuff, right? Like, oh, yeah, I know, I know, there is here I brought you, I brought you a pack of m&ms or something like that, right. Something that is totally his love language, something that he'll be super happy and pleased about that will just make it a lot less. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Because putting that effort in on the front end, if you will, I always talk about this, like putting the effort in on the front end will save you the hell.

Penny Williams 19:09

Yeah.

Robbin McManne 19:11

On the back end, right. I use all sorts of different words to describe the backend.

Penny Williams 19:16

That's okay.

Robbin McManne 19:18

Yeah, yeah. But you know what I mean, right? In that where he is off the cliff, what can we do to prevent it? And at the same time, sometimes we just can't even like for me, it was enough just to get him out. I didn't even want to talk about the lineup, because I knew he would be out right away. So I couldn't I just I knew like, in that moment, I could. So

Penny Williams 19:40

Yeah, it's planning for the what ifs which as a person with anxiety, I automatically do so that was one like good complex good parenting skill that came pretty automatic to me, because I also do it for myself, but just thinking about Okay, what might come up for my son in this situation. And what can I bring? What chat Can I have with him to prepare him before, and also mentally preparing ourselves that if we have to leave something, then we have to leave. Like sometimes there's times and we used to be the worst about trying to stick it out, because my son has an older sister. And if we had to stop doing something as a family, it took away from her, right. And it was so hard to do that. And so we would try to stick things out way past when we should have and that ended up being traumatizing for his sister, and probably him and the rest of us too. But you have to know when like to challenge and to try to teach and to try to hold on, and when to say okay, in this moment, this is just not going to work. And we're all suffering and it's time to just end it and move on. And we can try again later. Like, for us a big one was going to the local baseball games, and my son was the poster child of hyperactive impulsive. And so he was everywhere. And we all really like to watch the baseball game, which is super slow, and not at all engaging for an ADHD brain. And it felt like he was ruining our experience. And if that was the story, we told ourselves, then yeah, we're yelling, right? We're upside, we're like, sit down. Why can't you just all the things that you start out with as parents when you don't know better. And we learned we did better, we got to where we prepared better, we didn't go as often. Or we might take his sister, just her and have him stay with his grandparents sometimes, like, you have to give yourself some grace, because you don't know what you don't know. And when you do know, you'll do better. I always feel like there's such a hard line between thinking that you're allowing your kid to ruin something, versus just accepting who they are and where they are and what they need in that moment.

Robbin McManne 22:09

Hmm. I love that. I love everything you said about that. And I think that's just being realistic, right? Yeah. But you also have to, for all of those parents around you, and maybe it's your own family, maybe it's your parents, your in laws, you've got to let go of expectations, like sorry, we're just not a family that can actually go to a game every weekend, we just can't do that. And maybe you need to feel some feelings about that. As a parent, I know that I have had to mourn the loss of many things that I feel that I don't get to do now. Because my child has challenges, right? And instead of holding that against him, he's just being him. I just have to make sense of it? And it does mean, I had to let go of some things and make it okay, yeah, sure, you did, too, I'm sure you want to deliver that, that ballpark?

Penny Williams 23:00

How we wanted to just go and do all the things, like we thought happy families did and, so many of them just didn't go so great. And it's hard. Like, it's hard to be in those moments and think about your other kid or think about what you feel like you're missing out. As a parent, we go through those phases where we feel like we missed out we had a child that won't do this or that or can't do this or that. And, I know I've worked with a lot of parents who are sports fanatics, or they really believe in kids playing sports when they're young. And sometimes our kids just are not sports kids, especially not team sports. And you have to accept that like this dream that you had of coaching your kid playing soccer isn't really the reality of the kid you have. And that's hard. I mean, there is grief to that there is a process to accepting and letting go. But I will say there's a whole lot more joy when you get there. When you're fighting against reality. It's so painful.

Robbin McManne 24:05

Yeah, you're so right. And what we also have to recognize even though we have to make sense of it, and we have to sort of mourn the loss of that dream, is that that really is our dream that we're putting on our kid that's not his dream. Yeah, like if he doesn't want to play I'm Canadian. So if he doesn't play hockey, which is of course all we do here Yeah, not really. Whatever it is, like you you have to like kind of get over it too because like that's your dream for your life with a child that didn't get a say when you started having that dream, right? Yeah, now you're faced with a child that has a beating heart of his own that beats to a different drum than yours, right? And, and when you accept it, you're so right, like, What beautiful things you can learn. You can experience through your child by just letting them be who they truly are. And I'm sure you No, lots of parents who have even had jobs that they're like, yeah, I didn't. I had one client. And she said, she's in marketing. And I said, Oh, that sounds great. Because I love marketing personally, and that's my, my past career. And she said, No, I wanted to be in the theater. Oh, no. And she just did that to please her parents, because they were running their agenda, not honoring what she wanted, right? And that leaves a mark. Right? So it does,

Penny Williams 25:29

It really does. My father had a really hard time. With me getting a college degree that was not career ready. I got a degree in sociology. And for him, it was practical to spend the money on a college education that you go right into a job, and it would be good paying, and you'd be set up, right? That's the mentality that I grew up in. And then, you know, I have a differently wired kid. And I also have a kid with a lot of anxiety, who's very creative and introverted. And so she's about to finish an art degree in college. And I think, Oh, yeah, I'm over the last four years about how painful that probably is for him sometimes to think about, and that I was able, like patting myself on the back, I was able to be like, hey, follow your passion, you can be an artist and survive and be happy. You don't have to be a lawyer or a banker or a computer programmer, all these things that we think are going to set them up operate. Just follow your bliss, and the bliss will come is what I think

Robbin McManne 26:37

Absolutely, yes, yes. And let's not forget that the jobs of tomorrow aren't even invented. Yes. And that our degree might serve her so well. Absolutely. And you know what I mean, I so love that your dad wanted that for you. Like, of course he did, because that's safety. And then he can sit back and just not be anxious about you, because that's really what it's about. Sorry.

Penny Williams 27:01

That is it is my Talia. And I do sometimes have those worries. And, college was not right yet for my son. And so right now he's just sort of trying to find his way, which means a lot of sleeping and gaming and getting over how hard school was. And I have to just keep reminding myself, like, he'll find it, he'll get there. And it's okay, if the journey looks different for him. And it's okay, if it takes longer. And yes, that comes with some anxiety. I mean, I have anxiety about it all the time, it's been nine months, and he still is not ready to move forward in a direction. And, I do worry about that. But I learned to remind myself that that's my stuff. And that I have to let him be himself and follow the process. And it's not to say I'm still gonna let him sleep all day and game all night, five years from now, I mean, obviously, we're not going to go down that path forever. But sometimes our kids just need no pressure for a while. And I'll tell you, when you take the pressure off, those instances where you're triggered to yell are so much fewer, so so much fewer, because they're being triggered by that pressure.

Robbin McManne 28:17

Absolutely. Yeah. And we pass that stress back and forth, right? Stress is contagious. That pressure that stress, right. And, we also have to notice the way we look at this, first of all, I don't know if you've heard the book, he's not lazy. I mean, it's the best book for ADHD parents. And it's so interesting, because what he talks about the author talks about is how we call those boys lost causes. But we used to call them late bloomers. And doesn't Late Bloomer have so much more hope like it doesn't he's just not ready yet. And he doesn't have a fully grown brain, he still has five, maybe 10 years of brain growth left. So he is going to be a completely different person, right soon enough. And you just need to be his safe place. And that's exactly what you are for him right now.

Penny Williams 29:10

Yeah, yeah. And that brings up another thing too, is that we have to quit worrying about our kids futures. We have to really be in the now. When my son was in kindergarten, things were really hard. Of course, we didn't know that he had any differences yet, because he hadn't gone to preschool he stayed with his grandma. And so everything kind of hit the fan at one time and everything was super hard. And I remember his kindergarten teacher at the end of the year she said to me, he's gonna pull it together for heaven's sake, he's gonna be reading chapter books in two years. And that hurt First of all, it was so not helpful. All she was doing was rubbing salt in the wound. She was an awesome anyway, but that's another story. It's one of my books. It just it It was really painful for me to hear it now I can look back and I can go well, you can't worry that far in advance. Yeah, that was only two years. But like, when she said that, then we were freaking out about graduation. And his adult life, like we just went full on over that cliff. And then I'm stressed, I'm stressing my kid. Everybody's freaking out now. Like, it's so contagious, just as you said, it's so contagious. We live in the now and I'm not worried about 10 years from now, it's so much easier to probably make 10 years from now better in the long run, as we're focused on now.

Robbin McManne 30:45

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. I think that when you future parent like that, and you catapult yourself into the future, you're parenting from fear now. And now you're putting your fear on your child, and you're not accepting what is okay. So right now he's having trouble reading. Let's just deal with that today. And for those parents, you and I have kids in their teens, right? Your daughter might be older, older, I think, right? But I think you and I have the benefit of knowing that there is help along the way, then you don't have to worry that your child is going to be sitting alone in a classroom when everybody else is reading chapter books, except for him, he's reading board books, or whatever you conjure up in your imagination for like, how left behind your child is, there's help along the way. And don't worry, and in fact, when we are fully present with our kids, and we can parent them in this really intentional way, right? We're not reacting from our stuff, we're not running our own agenda, we are just seeing them as their own being their own human with their own life ahead of them. And we parent them, respecting them and loving them. And honoring that, look, this can be hard, all of those things that ensures their future well being. And in fact, it also ensures our future well being because we are infinitely connected to our children. And when they're doing well. We're doing well, just like your dad, right? He was stressed Yeah. He's not doing well, right. But you can see that like, when our kids are thriving, we thrive to write and so take it one step at a time Do not catapult into the future. And if COVID has told us anything, it's told us that we do not know what is around the corner. And whatever is around the corner, we are powerless to deal with whatever that is. So just stay here you have no idea what the future has in store whatsoever.

Penny Williams 32:46

Yeah, that's so true. And things get so much better. Our kids build skills, they mature, maybe at a much slower rate, no mature later, but they do get there like my kid at almost 19 is unrecognizable. Compared to the kid I had it 6789 years old, he was the hyperactive kid standing on his head running around, knocking things down, not being able to listen and follow through. And now he's extremely calm, probably too sedentary at this point because of COVID. But like that pendulum swung in the exact opposite arena, and I never would have foreseen that. And so I worried about it. How is he going to get to graduation? If he can't get through kindergarten? Okay, yeah. And I didn't need to, I didn't need to because none of the behavior and the things that were an issue at that age, lasted, 10 years down the road, they got better so much got better. And I think parents have especially younger kids, you've got to know that it can and it does get better and because you're here listening to this podcast, you're wanting to do the best you can to help your child and so you've kind of not guaranteed but almost you've given him at least 75 80% chance of doing great I think there's greatness in everyone and every kid we just have to help our kids find it.

Robbin McManne 34:19

Yeah, I totally agree. You're right if you're listening to this, you're already winning because you're a parent who cares enough to parent these kids in a way that helps them to thrive the best that they can?

Penny Williams 34:32

Yes, we could talk forever I say this at the end of almost every podcast we could talk forever about this. Because I'm so passionate about it. I have so much life experience now with it and so many of the guests that we have are the same and so it's so hard to to cut things off and have short conversations but we are out of time. Anything else you wanted to make sure that you mentioned before we close

Robbin McManne 34:55

You know what I just that you're not alone and you Make sure you do things for you that find you joy if you're a parent listening, because you got to make sure you're okay. Because this is tough. This is really tough.

Penny Williams 35:10

And when we feel good, we can do good, just like our kids. Yeah. So we have to feel good in order to be that amazing parent that we want to be. And that amazing parent still has flaws and times that they yell. Let's just put that out there.

Robbin McManne 35:23

100% 100% Exactly. This is the practice of peaceful parenting. This isn't perfect parenting. So let's not pretend that I'm not perfect. And there isn't such a thing. We just do the best we can at every moment.

Penny Williams 35:37

Absolutely. Thank you so much for being here. everyone listening for the show notes, you can go to parenting, ADHDandautism.com/145 for Episode 145. And we'll have links to Robin's website and social media and ways to connect and learn more from her and even potentially, to some coaching as well some parent coaching so you can find all that information there go and check it out. I really encourage you to do that. And with that we will close I will see everybody on the next episode. Thanks for joining me on the parenting ADHD podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share. And don't forget to check out my online courses, parent coaching and Mama retreats at parentingADHDandautism.com

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