Julie King 0:04

It can be challenging as a parent, because we have these thoughts in our head, like, why can't he just, fill in the blank? And like he's like, why can't he just get himself dressed? Like how many times do I have to ask him to get his shirt and his pants? And we have these ideas that they should be able to do something by sometime. And, those shirts just are not helpful.

Intro 0:31

Welcome to the parenting ADHD Podcast, where I share insights and strategies on raising kids with ADHD straight from the trenches. I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author, ADHD a Holic and mindset Mama, honored to guide you on the journey of raising your a typical kid. Let's get started.

Penny Williams 1:00

Welcome back to the parenting ADHD podcast. I'm so excited today to be talking to Julie King, who co authored how to talk when kids won't listen. And you may have read the book how to talk. So kids will listen and listen. So kids will talk which is kind of a classic and parenting now and this is somewhat similar. And I'll let Julie, tell us all about that. Thank you for being here. I'm really excited to have this conversation together. And to dive into some information about your new book. Will you start by introducing yourself? Let us know who you are and what you do?

Julie King 1:34

Sure. So yes, as you mentioned, I am the co author of a new book, how to talk when kids won't listen, which I wrote with my very good friend Joanna Faber, we also co authored another book, how to talk so little kids will listen. That's a Survival Guide to Life with children ages two to seven. She and I actually met when we were babies. And our mothers became very good friends. And her mother is the co author of the book, you mentioned how to talk. So kids will listen and listen. So kids will talk. She and my mother were good friends. And they were studying with him not child psychologist and experimenting on her and me and our sibling. So we were really getting picked for this approach. And we went through nursery school all the way through high school together, and we went our separate ways. And when I had my first child, I started listening to how other people were talking to their kids. And I thought they don't seem to know some of these tools that I learned sort of through osmosis. And then through reading Adele's books. And so I started leading parenting workshops for the parents of my son's preschool. And then other people heard about it, and it sort of snowballed into a career. And in the meantime, I was having my three kids.

So I have now I have a 30 year old, who has sensory processing issues that were not diagnosed till he was about one and a half, he had a bunch of developmental delays and had a lot of early intervention. And I mentioned this because I know your audience is particular audience that with various issues. So I want you to know about my kids. So that was my first child. My second one, who is now 27, was also born looking like there was some differences. And he was eventually diagnosed with well with Asperger's, which is now considered an autism spectrum disorder. And then I had my third child, a girl who is now 23. And I took her to the developmental pediatrician, because I thought that's what you do in my family. Yeah, but she was a normally typically developing child. So I had quite a range. So over the years, I've been doing a lot of workshops, I work one on one with parents. And a lot of people in those years, those early years said, we really love this approach. And it's really great. And we need more examples and more stories for little kids. So that's why we wrote the how to talk so little kids will listen book. And after that book came out, and that became a bestseller.

We started hearing from parents, all over the US and all over the world, people in Russia and Singapore, and South Africa and France, and just all over. And it really spoke to a lot of people. And they had more questions like what do I do in this situation? And so at one point, we decided, well, we need to take some of these questions and the answers we were giving and turn that into another book. So our new book addresses what I think of is a lot of the hot topics that parents face. When they're raising children. How do you deal with the fighting? What do you do about homework? How do you manage screentime? That's been a huge issue this past year. And I could go on and on. So so that's the book in sort of, in a very brief nutshell. That's how I got into doing the work that I do now.

Penny Williams 4:43

And so we were talking earlier before we started the first book from your friend's mother and her co author. Were just a life changing, read for us. It made so much sense and I recommend it and have been for years to parenting clients. And so I was so excited when I heard about this new book because I feel like a lot of parents of kids with ADHD or autism or other challenges feel like their kids won't listen, we feel like we are not being heard. And sometimes we feel like it's intentional when so often I think it's not. And so I thought maybe we could start by talking about sort of the premise of getting kids engaged with us. So if they're not listening, or we feel like they won't listen to us, what are sort of the maybe key factors or foundations to creating better interactions?

Julie King 5:43

So let me touch on three. Okay, one. One is that we need to have a basic connection with our kids, if the only thing they hear from us all day long is no put that down, honey, no, it's time to turn on the, the zoom camera for your class, or get your coat on, it's time to go if, if that's all they hear, all day long. They're gonna dread hearing anything from us, right? If we start to approach them, they're gonna think oh, no, here she goes, again, with another demand another command? Yeah. So establishing that connection, having that fundamental relationship with our kids is so important. And in my experience, raising kids who are differently wired, there's a lot that we need to have that make them do you know, what my, my kids had a lot of therapies and activities that we did with them to sort of enrich them and to help them involved a lot of put the book down with getting the car, let's get going sort of thing. And so it's really important that they still feel like we have that, that basic connection with them. And one of the things we talk about in our books is importance of joining them in their world, doing something with them that they find interesting or enjoyable. And, that sounds so simple, but I know that that can be really challenging. I had a mom in one of my workshops, who had a little boy with autism. And what he wanted to do was crawl into his tiny little one person tent with his iPad and plays this bubble game that he loved in silence. And she would just leave him alone. And figured, there's no way that he'll connect with me around that. And after we had a session at talking about the importance of connecting with our kids around something that's interesting to them, she went over to him while he was doing this little bubble game in his little tent. And she kind of scratched that it was one of these fabric tents. And she said she could scratch that very quietly, because he was very sensitive to sound. And she just said, Can I watch? And he actually nodded at her and let her watch, which was in and of itself in a step forward. Yeah. Then she said, Can I play with you? And he said, Yes. And he showed her how to play, she kind of stuck her head in this little tent. And they play this bubble game. And she said, she realized that she had always been trying to pull him out of the tent and get him to play with her. And so he's, appropriate activities where he would learn something. And the value of going to him and saying, This is what he's interested in, and I can show interest in what he's doing. And I can join him in his world, was a really profound experience for her. So that's one tip. And I don't mean to make it sound like it's so simple, because I know that my experiences with a lot of parents of kids on the autism spectrum, for example, they have these strong interests that they want to talk about all the time, trains or whatever it is. And we get tired of talking about trains. But it's really helpful to find some time when we can get curious about what's interesting about it to them, and let them share with us what's going on for them. So that's my first tip. My second tip is around, acknowledging what's going on for them. So let's say we are now trying to get them to go to their speech therapy appointment, and they have no interest in going because they're in the middle of doing something we, what we want to do is to say, Come on, let's go let's hurry up, but it down and you have to go, it can be really helpful to acknowledge you're just not in the mood to go right now. I wish that we could just freeze time. So you could stay and finish this game. It's so unfortunate that, these these appointments happen, and we can't just put a pause on life. So acknowledging what's going on for them and acknowledging their feelings, putting into words, what they're experiencing, can be enormously helpful. I'll tell you another story.

I was working with a mom who had two children. One of them was a little bit older. He was, I think, eight and then she had a younger one, who was a preschooler who didn't have a lot of expressive language. And her older one was a typically developing child who had a friend over and he was playing in the backyard and a little one who really needed much more supervision was inside the house and he started banging on the door, clearly wanting to go outside. And she was trying to get dinner started and she didn't really have time to take them outside. She said normally what she would do is just pretend she didn't know what he wanted and ignore him and try to say, Oh, come on over here, honey. Let's play with something and try to get him engaged in the kitchen, and pretend she didn't know that he wanted to go outside, after she had been exposed to this idea of putting into words how a child feels, she actually put into words what he was trying to say when he was banging on the door, which was, you see your brother playing outside, you want to go outside with him. You don't want to stay inside and play. And he calmed down. And she said, The problem is, I have to get dinner started first, before we can go outside. What do you want to do while I'm getting ready. And To her surprise, he came over to the kitchen and took out some of the plastic when it comes to containers and sort of playing with them. So that second idea of putting it towards how our kids are feeling really acknowledging what's going on for them, is sometimes it's counter intuitive. We think, as she thought, if I say out loud, that he wants to go outside, then it's just going to make it worse, then he's going to be even more frustrated. But in fact, when you deny a child's feelings and say, No, it's not time yet, you don't really need to go outside Honey, come on over here, then he feels like you don't get it, you don't understand. And a lot of kids will escalate, they'll start pounding and kicking the door and shouting. So that's the second empathy.

Penny Williams 11:10

That's a lot of empathy, which is so powerful. Yeah. And I think, as we all do kids want to be seen and heard. They want to be acknowledged what they're going through. Yeah. And so yeah, that's a big one.

Julie King 11:24

It's true. You're right. It's true for all people, we parents want somebody to understand what we're going through. And sometimes it's hard to think about what's going on for the child because we're juggling so many conflicting needs. And, and it's hard to sort of take a breath and think, okay, what's going on for my child? If we can do that, it can actually help our kids regulate, it can help them de escalate, and it can make them feel more cooperative.

Penny Williams 11:49

Mm hmm. Definitely. It's very collaborative that way. So they feel like they're a part of it, rather than just being told what to do or not to do. Yeah, yeah.

Julie King 11:59

So of course, we can't just focus on our kids feelings, because sometimes we need them to do things that they are a totally uninterested in, do it. Yes. Kids really don't care about being on time, they don't really care about cleaning up. Most of them most of the time have put it that way. And so when we want them to do things that they don't want to do, it seems like the most direct and efficient way to get them to do things is to tell them, No, honey, put that down, come upstairs, brush your teeth. To a child, it feels like I'm being ordered around. And kids want to have a say in what they do and how they do it. So that strategy can often backfire. Kids will dig their heels in, they'll say no, or they'll just cross the aisle that just refuse or they'll pretend they didn't hear you. Yeah. So we have a whole host of tools and strategies that parents and teachers can use to make kids feel more cooperative to make them feel like they want to do these things that we want them to do. So I'll give you one example is to be playful with kids. And you really need to know your child on this one, what's what tickles their fancy, or what kind of thing they like, one of my favorite examples is, with little kids, and we're trying to get their shoes on and they're running away or giggling or just not wanting to cooperate. And instead of saying, Hey, sit down, don't you dare kick me on radio, you are sitting still while I put your shoes on, like that sort of talk where we think I'm gonna get tough and they're gonna do it. And that cannot, often just make things worse, they just become more uncooperative. So one of my favorite playful ways, playful approaches is to make an inanimate object talk. And in this case, I would make this shoe talk like, I feel so empty and cold, I need to find it.

And a lot of little kids cannot resist a talking shoe. Yeah. But because we're talking to your particular audience, I want to mention that there are a lot of kids, especially kids who are on the spectrum, who are very concrete thinkers, who know that shoes don't talk and they won't like it. And they'll say, Mommy, the shoe doesn't talk. And if that doesn't work for your kid, I say, use another strategy.

Penny Williams 14:08

Yeah, yeah. And that's so true. Sometimes they are so literal, that things like that just don't work for them. That reminds me, I had a speaker at our happy mama retreat one year, a local psychologist. And she sat and talked to the peas. Whenever things are getting crazy in the house, everybody is intense, and you just need a break in it. Open the freezer and talk to the peas. That's the same concept and like how do you not laugh when your mom was just angry? And you're screaming at her and suddenly she opens the freezer like a crazy person and starts having a conversation with the peas like, it has to break the ice most of the time. And I think that's what you're getting toward to is just find a way to make them laugh.

Julie King 14:54

Yeah, yeah. And it's not all about laughter like my son who When it was time for him to change his clothes, he could very much be of the mode of Yeah, I'm gonna go get dressed and he'll wander off to his room, get distracted by a piece of dust or whatever was on his way, and completely forget what he was doing. By the time it gets to his room, and he's sort of looking around, forgetting where he was going. And one of the things I did when I realized that this was an issue was I made a list. And I wrote down, shirt, underpants, pants, socks. And when I first did this with him, I actually put the list on the kitchen table where I was sitting, and I said, This is for you. Let's see if you can do these four things. Let's start with the first one the shirt, you want to go see if you can find your shirt in your room and put it on. So he ran off to his room with this idea in his head, I'm just going to do my shirt. And he put his shirt on, and he ran back. And let's see what's next on the list. So I had broken it down into steps. And if I had given him the whole list to start, it would have been overwhelming. But just to start with the shirt, that was something he could focus on. And then he came back and he saw the underpants he ran off and did his underpants he came back. And then did the same thing for the pants and the socks. And eventually, I did that a number of times before I said, I think we could put this list, we could tape it to the wall of your room. And you could look at it in your room. And of course he felt great, because now he was getting addressed all by himself. And he would come out and I'd say, you did it. You have your shirt on ice, ice your pants, I'd see your socks. I bet your underpants is hiding under there, I can't even see it. And he stood real tall, like he had done it. So it was a win for him. It was a win for me. Because, I didn't have to actually walk him into his room and remind him what to do.

Penny Williams 16:44

Right. Right. But it was a big win for him. You're adjusting so that he could be successful? Yeah. And of course, when kids feel confident and competent, they do well, I talk all the time about we have to feel good to do good. Exactly. And which feels better, the excitement of running back and forth, and your mom is helping and everybody is feeling calm and rational. And it's going well or, mom following you around and begging you to brush your teeth and, get your stuff done. So yeah, it really just setting them up to be successful at tasks really does help with that interaction between parent and child and that relationship in general.

Julie King 17:27

It can be challenging as a parent, because we have these thoughts in our head, like why can't he just fill in the blank? In my case? Like why can't he just get himself dressed? Like, how many times do I have to ask him to get his shirt and this pants on? Yeah. And we have these ideas that they should be able to do something by some time. And those shoulds just are not helpful. And I learned that especially with a child whose developmental journey was it didn't follow a pattern that my other kids have and doesn't help to compare. So I think if we can notice that we're doing that to ourselves. I mean, that's why we get so frustrated As parents, we think, why can't they just? or How many times do I have to say this, the kids need a lot of practice and reminder before they can do things. And we also have to remember that a child who can get himself dressed in the morning, when he's got a lot of energy, might not be able to get himself dressed in the afternoon when he's tired. Right. And that's true for so many things.

Penny Williams 18:30

It goes back to that acknowledging what's going on for them. Yeah, too. Yeah, yeah. So let's shift gears, I think for a minute and talk about the times that are super hard, when our kids just really feel like they're absolutely not willing to listen to us. We need them to do something they're avoiding or putting up a wall or maybe they've gotten intense or aggressive. Parents are always wondering, what do I do when it's really bad? What happens and a lot of what we've talked about so far is the work that you do outside of those times. So those times happen less often. And you can maybe manage them a little bit easier. But when we're really engaged and butting heads with our kids, what helps that those times?

Julie King 19:13

Well, I'm sure this is just a very theoretical question. But I'm just wondering if you have any specific example of a time when you were in a situation like this, because then we can sort of get our teeth into it and analyze it, I can give you some very concrete ideas.

Penny Williams 19:26

Yeah. So for example, my son when he was I would say, 12 11/12, he would get stuck a lot. And he would be very stuck for hours. So he maybe wanted a new Lego set. Yeah. And I had to say, we can't do that today. And not even a no because by then I had learned to try to say yes, as much as possible, right. Yeah. And that helps. And so it wasn't a concrete. No, it was a yes. When or yes later and he was just because Because of those autistic characters to extend his little brain fairy stuck on having that Lego set, having it in his hands right now, there was no other time that could possibly work out for him. And the more he begged and pleaded and tried to bargain with me and negotiate, of course, the more frustrated I would get, and then, I'm trying to make dinner and he just won't stop, right and, and I'm trying to get past it to be able to move on to move forward. And this one time, in particular, it was probably three hours, oh, he would not leave my side, he could not get past it, he was just so stuck. And I understood that, cognitively, but emotionally, I was getting super frustrated, right. And so sometimes voices were being raised. And honestly, I don't remember how it finally worked out. Interestingly enough, I remember the pain, I don't remember what happened that that worked out, and,six or seven years. So that's not surprising. But right now, what could we have done maybe in that moment, and so many of our parents too, they just get into these yelling matches, almost, if your kids yelling at you, as a human being, we're wired to respond in kind, we have to work really hard not to yell back at that and to stay calm. And so when everybody's intense like that over any number of things, getting something they wanted, and not being able to shift gears or, it could boil down to parents wanting kids to do homework and kids having a hard time with it, not wanting to do it. And, those are just some really common examples.

Julie King 21:42

Yeah, oh, my gosh, they put me right back there with a great example. And, of course, what we want to say is Honey, I already asked and answered this, some people say I say often answered, but very rarely does a child who's persisting say, Oh, that's true. I did ask you that, and you did answer it. And so I'll let that go. Right. It doesn't happen. Right. I mean, that worked, I wouldn't have had to write a book, write, write, write, write, be out of a job. Which would be great.

it is part of it is part of life. So what we want to say is, asked and answered or, we can't do that today, honey, we'll get into some other time, I don't want to hear about it again, you have to stop. Like all of those things are what we want. And sometimes with some kids, that kind of thing will help. But for a child who is persisting, I would go back to thinking about what is he feeling? Can I put into words, what's going on for him? So he knows that I get it. Not that I'm going to give him what he wants. But I understand how strongly he wants that Lego set. I'd say, you really want that Lego set, it sounds so cool. And you know exactly what you want to do with it. Maybe I'd ask him, what would you do with it? What are you going to do with it? When you get it? What are you going to build? And I might also say it's really hard to hear that you have to wait, you don't want to wait. So I might acknowledge that feeling. And I'm going to throw out a bunch of ideas, you would necessarily use all of it. Yeah. But I also might say, I think we need to write down what you want. And we need to think about when we can actually, we can't go today because we don't have the time. And tomorrow it's going to be blah, blah, blah. But Saturday, maybe we need to write this down on the calendar for your son who's 12. Maybe I'd ask him to write down, what he wants and why he wants it and what he's going to do with it so that he feels like he can express it in a quieter way than him nagging at you. Yeah, and then you can read it back to him. So those are all various ways to, I think of it as acknowledging his feelings, acknowledging what he wants, putting it into words, rather than saying, what he hears is, I hear what you want to know you can't have it. Right. Yeah. And that just makes him mad. Yeah. So he needs to know. Boy, what I wish, I wish that we had a little Lego factory right here. And we could just press a button. And we could create that Lego set, that would be so cool. My son who's on the spectrum, he loved to do that kind of fantasy. He'd come home, and he'd complained about homework or school or whatever. And I'd say I bet when you grow up, you would create a school that didn't have homework, and it wouldn't start so early in the morning. It wouldn't go for so long ago, his complaints. He would like to fantasize, like, Oh, my kids like to do that, actually. So if you have a child who likes to think about how they would create the world if they were in charge, go with that game. That's a lot easier game to play as a parent. Yeah. Then No, honey, stop. I already said it. That's enough. Yeah, for sure. There are going to be some times when you're going to say to yourself, I need to take care of myself right now. I hear how much you want that Lego set. I need to have a break from thinking about it. So I'm going to go into my room, or I'm going to go for a walk or what you were able to do. when my kids were very young. I would go into the bathroom. Yes, I would take the baby. It's have just gotten there for a minute and take my deep breaths because I felt like I just need to get away.

Penny Williams 25:04

Yeah, yeah. And I have to say your idea of writing it down has been so helpful in so many different struggles like that, that we've come into, over the years, lots of schooling, anxiety and avoidance. And if I wrote down his concerns, it felt like it was real that I heard him and that I was going to take action, where if we just had a conversation about it, he could not get to a place where he could get to school, it had to be that I really made it very real, that I was listening, and that I heard him and understood, and that I was making a plan, and I was going to do something for him. So writing it down on the calendar is a great idea, especially for any of our kids with time blindness, which still will probably feel like forever to them. But at least there's visual tangible things to sort of latch on to. And, the other thing that I have learned to use as well is to say, I want to help you, but I can't help you like this, I need to take a break, you need to take a break, we need to calm down so that we can have a real conversation about it. And then we can find a solution. And as my son got older, that worked a lot more, obviously than when he was super young.

That has been really, really helpful, because I'm not saying that what he thinks and feels doesn't matter to me. I'm just saying that we all have to take a breath and be calm, so that we can problem solve. So we can think more clearly. Right? Right, right. I mean, there's there's biology behind that. When we're super emotional, our thinking brain is cut off from access, right? And really teaching him that to you that there was science behind it. This is why it's not me, saying I don't want to talk to you. It's that our brains really can't do this right now. And I found that really helpful, too. And a lot of those moments.

Julie King 26:59

Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's great. That's great. You're reminding me of another moment I had with my son, something had happened at school, and he came home. so distraught that he couldn't really talk, he was crying, and he said, teacher and it was going on and on like this, like he could, he was barely able to get a breath. And I did not know what it happened. And of course, my anxiety is going up like thinking, Oh, my God, what happened. And I needed him to calm down enough to tell me, but I knew if I just said, Honey, calm down, calm down, take a deep breath, he wouldn't. He couldn't. In that moment, he was so consumed and overwhelmed with this upset. And it's very hard as a parent to be with a child, your own child, when they're that upset. I can attest from firsthand experience. And one of the things I did was I grabbed a pad of paper. And I started writing down every word he said, which, as I say, there was just one word at a time, right? So I wrote down. And then I wrote down teacher, and he said, and, and then he would, sob and cry. And I would read, the teacher said, and by reading it out loud, it actually helped him be able to take another breath and say another word and start to calm down. And it was incredibly helpful for him. But honestly, it was incredibly helpful for me. Yeah, because I wanted to feel like I was doing something. And I needed a way to manage my own anxiety that I wanted to like, say, just tell me already, what was it I had this, and it was something that was incredibly upsetting to him. It wasn't, he wouldn't put this down, as in need to report the teacher to the authorities or anything. But it was upsetting to him. And writing it down was very powerful for both of us in that moment.

Penny Williams 28:44

Yeah, it was something for you to do when you couldn't really, fix it. It was something for you to focus on. That was helpful. Yeah, it's such a great idea.

Julie King 28:54

And I think that we as parents, I think this applies to all parents, but especially the parents of differently wired kids, there are times when we need to figure out how to manage our own feelings, because they can get in the way of helping our kids. I'm thinking also of just trying to get my son's attention to ask him a question. And he could hyperfocus as many of these kids can. And if I came in and just started saying, hey, Raj, what do you want for lunch? He would completely ignore me. And that was one of the things I just felt like, Ah, yeah, I need an answer. Don't ignore me. But I learned that I can't just walk it and start talking. And he was very sensitive to sudden noises. So, I didn't want to startle him by pounding on the door or something. So not very quietly, and I'd say, hey, Rashi, so he would hear his name. And then I would pause. I would wait until he looked up and, or till it looked like maybe he was listening that I caught his attention and I'd say, I have a question for you when you're ready.

And that when you're ready, I think was really critical in showing him respect because he was in the middle of his own deep thoughts, and let him know that I'm there that I have something, but I'm gonna wait until he's ready. And then I would wait until he looked up. And, these were the days before cell phones, I have to tell you, so I would I would stand there and I would actually count to myself so that I can save myself. Okay, I made it 24 he looked up. Now I probably would take it, something to re do. But then he would look up. And then I would say, Steve, do you want turkey sandwich? Or did you want peanut butter and jelly for lunch? And he would tell me, but if I had just walked in and said, from the get go, which do you want? He would have completely I don't if it's no, it's fair to say ignore me, because I don't think he would have heard me. Right. Exactly. And sometimes parents say to me, like, how do I get my kids to listen, like they don't hear? They don't listen to me. And I say, do they actually know that you're talking to them? With my son if I also put my hand on his shoulder, but it had to be a firm touch? Not some light thing that would startle him. Some kids? They do well, if you touch them first and then talk. So you really have no your own kid. Here's another principle of all of this.

Penny Williams 31:04

Yeah, it's funny, I literally had the exact conversation about telling your child that you want to talk to them about something when they're ready. With a coaching client an hour ago, we had that exact conversation about, yeah, he answered you, but he didn't think it through. And then he realized later it was a problem, his answer. And so give it to him on his own time. So we have some control. But also, when he comes to you, he's engaged with you. He's listening, and you can really have that conversation and have it be meaningful. And that's so funny. It's such a big strategy, though, it's very, very helpful. Because giving kids that sense of control alone.

Julie King 31:45

We all know what it feels like to be interrupted, you we've all had that experience of I'm in the middle of writing an email, and my husband comes and interrupts me, I think I'm gonna forget what I'm, like, don't just start talking. We know we have that experience as an adult. So that's what's going on for our kids also. And I always think it's helpful to be able to relate to what it feels like to beat them in that experience.

Penny Williams 32:07

Yeah, that's so so important. Thank you so much, Julie, for being here and sharing some of your insights and strategies and wisdom. With everyone listening. I know we have to wrap up. Now, we could talk about this all day, I'm sure. But these are some great starter strategies for parents. And of course, we encourage them to to read the book as well. For everyone listening, you can get links to both books, and anything else that we've mentioned in this episode, as well as website and that sort of thing in the show notes, which are located at parentingADHDandautism.com/139 for Episode 139. Again, I just want to thank you so much. It was an honor to have you on the podcast and really share some of this wisdom with our listeners.

Julie King 32:56

Thank you so much. And I think what you're doing and this resource you're providing is just so helpful for parents. I wished I had something like this when my kids were little,

Penny Williams 33:05

Which is exactly why I do it because I wish I had something like this and like it's so true. Well thank you again. With that. We'll end the episode. I'll see everyone next time.

Thanks for joining me on the parenting ADHD podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share. And don't forget to check out my online courses, parent coaching and Mama retreats at parentingADHDandautism.com

Transcribed by https://otter.ai