Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:00:03]: When you know things are not going well and your mama bear instinct says, like, I'm gonna go in there and tell them what needs to happen, we gotta kinda rein that back in with that idea that collaboration really is the long term best strategy because you don't want to burn bridges or strain a relationship that you know you're gonna have to have for quite a while.

Penny Williams [00:00:30]: Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches. I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author, and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started.

Penny Williams [00:00:52]: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Beautifully Complex. I have my friend, Scotty Weintraub, here with me, who is an advocate for education and differently wired kids. And we're gonna talk about conversations with teachers, which I think is so very important. And for any parents with anxiety, this is really an anxiety provoking thing to have these they're hard conversations, to say, you know, things aren't going well. What can we do? How do we fix this? And in this particular conversation, we're gonna focus a lot on talking to your kids' teachers about their brain, how their unique brain is working, and how that understanding hopefully is then going to translate into the understanding, the insights, the accommodations that kids need to succeed in the classroom. Scottie, will you start though by letting everybody know who you are and what you do?

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:01:53]: Hi, Penny. Thanks so much for having me. It's always a pleasure. I am as you said, I'm Scottie Weintraub. I'm the founder of Reframe Parenting, and I help parents find roadmaps to school success. And I do that by through coaching and education. But really, my focus is on helping parents get the supports that their students need and deserve to help all students shine at school. No matter what, I believe fundamentally that all kids deserve to do well at school.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:02:29]: Whatever doing well looks like, and it can be, you know, it can be a lot of different things, but that's sort of the foundation.

Penny Williams [00:02:36]: Yeah. And it's so difficult. And the journey looks different for every student and every family, and it looks different in every classroom, honestly. Like, every year with a new teacher, we were starting from scratch. We had to do the educating. We had to get to know you. They had to connect if they were gonna connect and all these things, right, that go into it. But I think at the foundation of it is this information about how our kids' brains work differently and how that means that they need something different in the classroom.

Penny Williams [00:03:05]: Right? It's not just, I'm gonna tell you that my kid's brain works differently and here's how. We also have to help them translate that right into what the kid or the student needs. Where do we start with this conversation, or is there even, like, groundwork that we can set before we have this conversation?

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:03:23]: Well, yes and yes. So I think the more we know as parents about how our kids' unique brain works, it's gonna benefit us both at home and when we have those conversations with schools.

Penny Williams [00:03:35]: Yeah.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:03:36]: So part of what I work with parents about is really doing that investigative work, uncovering. And sometimes people come and they've already they already have a diagnosis. They know their child has ADHD, for instance. But sometimes they just know that things are not going well at school. And maybe they're not going well at home, but sometimes it's just happening at school. And it so it can be hard to tease out what actually is happening. And so I work with families to do that investigative work, to ask questions, to, you know, make observations, and then use that data that you collect. That it's really useful information when we stop and take sort of a bigger, you know, thousand foot view.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:04:15]: Like, what are we seeing instead of just focusing on, you know, the challenge itself? But let's back up and look at, you know, what what's coming before that? What are the triggers? Where are there particular topics that they seem in school that they seem to have, you know, the most challenge with? You know, they like science, but reading for some reason and, okay, let's dig into that. What about their reading? So that work, if you can do that work, then when you come to the teacher, you are armed with so much useful information. You're not just coming to the teacher saying, oh my goodness, my kid is struggling, and I don't know what to do. So it puts you in a position of, confidence and power to have the information that you need.

Penny Williams [00:05:00]: Yeah. And I would think about, like, times a day too. Right?

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:05:02]: Oh, absolutely.

Penny Williams [00:05:03]: Does your kid struggle more in in the morning or the afternoon or with a particular, like, quiet time activity? Or is it more when things are free or more when they're structured? Like, there's so many variables. Right?

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:05:16]: Or are they sitting next to a certain person that is Mhmm. You know, really distracting for them? Those are all really good pieces of information to have so that when you have the conversations with the teacher, you can say, you know, when my son sits next to the student, it seems that their dynamic, and this is not a judgment, of course, but their dynamic is that they distract each other. Then that opens up conversation about, okay. Well, what can we try instead? So coming to those conversations with as much information as you can is, like, my number one starting point. And if you have that, if you happen to have a diagnosis or you've done things like a, you know, some sort of screening or psychological evaluation, those are useful data points too, and sometimes they will bring with them those reports will have, you know, suggestions. But even if you don't have that, knowing what you know as parent, because you know your kid best. Right? You might not be in the school setting, but you know them, you know their personality, you know their quirks, you know their strengths. And being prepared to communicate that information is really the best way to, I think, to go into teacher conversations.

Penny Williams [00:06:28]: Yeah. And I always learn well, I didn't always. I learned at some point to really take a collaborative tone. This is what I have noticed at home. What are you seeing? Mhmm. This is what I've noticed works at home. Do you think we could try it in the classroom? Right? So not dictating what we want necessarily, but having that collaborative conversation. This is the information that I'm the expert on about my kid that I can bring.

Penny Williams [00:07:03]: Let's talk about it and how it relates to your situation, your environment with your expertise with this kid.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:07:10]: Oh, collaboration is the key. And you have to or rather your child is in that school for a while. Right? They might have that teacher for only a year, but they're also in that building. So relationships, we don't wanna be burning bridges. Right?

Penny Williams [00:07:27]: Yeah.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:07:27]: And it only benefits you to go in with a collaborative approach. And so for people who are more timid or have anxiety or, you know, that can feel really nervous. Right? Like, trying to build those, you know, it feels a little like a big mountain to climb. Like, oh, I have to what am I gonna do? But for some other people, the challenge is to not come in with that heat.

Penny Williams [00:07:55]: Right? Right. Right. To rein it back a little.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:07:58]: Yeah. To rein it back a little when you know things are not going well and your mama bear instinct says, like, I'm gonna go in there and tell them what needs to happen.

Penny Williams [00:08:07]: Yep.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:08:08]: We gotta kinda bring that back in with that idea that collaboration really is the long term best strategy because you don't want to burn bridges or strain a relationship that you know you're gonna have to have for quite a while. So whatever you can do to lead, I always say lead with curiosity. So the way you phrased it was perfect that you can come with all that really great

Penny Williams [00:08:33]: information you have as the, like, expert in your kid. But then if we

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:08:33]: if we put on that lens of leading with curiosity, we take that and say, okay. This is what I'm seeing. What are you seeing? Mhmm. Right? We turn it into a question instead of a a demand or a statement, and that opens doors that says, oh, what am I seeing? Okay. I noticed this or I noticed that. Instead of if you said, for instance, like, I'm an expert in my kid and you need to do x y or z.

Penny Williams [00:09:02]: Right.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:09:03]: No one in any kind of relationship in a professional setting, in friendships wants to be confronted like that. Right? It doesn't feel good in any setting. And especially for teachers who have very difficult jobs, we we know this. Mhmm. And they are stretched very thin, and they're under resourced. And so it can feel like an attack if you come in, like, really hot and aren't leading with that collaboration. It can feel really threatening.

Penny Williams [00:09:35]: Yeah. Yeah. %.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:09:37]: And even the same is true in the other direction too. Then, you know, parents want to feel like their teachers are really working with them because they care so deeply about their kids.

Penny Williams [00:09:51]: Yeah. Yeah. And I came to realize pretty early on too that teachers are not educated on neurodivergence and learning disabilities. Mhmm. You would think that a teacher would need to have some knowledge about at least learning disabilities, but they don't. You can get a degree and a certification, and you can teach for decades and not understand ADHD, autism, dysgraphia, dyslexia, all those things, executive functioning. You know, I've probably told this story on this podcast before, but we had in, I believe, tenth grade, we got a new special ed boss. Like, she she wasn't his connection, his teacher, but she was in charge of them.

Penny Williams [00:10:34]: And we were in a meeting, and I used the term executive function. And she'd been a special ed teacher for twenty five years. She did not know the term executive function. That was a huge eye opener for me. Huge. She was very eager to learn. She actually asked me to bring my books, and she knew that I had written books and asked me to bring my books for her to read. She was very open and eager to learn.

Penny Williams [00:11:00]: But, like, when we start these conversations with teachers, we have to realize that your kid is not struggling in their classroom because they don't care. Your kid is struggling in their classroom because they may not yet have that knowledge. Right? And then the question becomes, how do we impart the knowledge without being overbearing, without seeming like we're trying to tell them what to do?

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:11:25]: That's a big challenge, I think. And you're right. I was personally also really surprised, you know, confused by the fact that teachers don't learn this information. Because in an ideal world, they would. It makes sense that the teachers need to know about the breadth of neurodiversity and about how different brains work and how different kids learn.

Penny Williams [00:11:49]: Mhmm.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:11:49]: You would think that, but, unfortunately, our teacher training programs are not doing a good job. I mean, I think there are lots of folks trying to push them in that direction. And I know teachers who individually have done some of that work to gain, you know, more knowledge and information. But I think it's fair to say that we can assume they might not know. And so, you know, I was talking earlier about gathering that information as a parent. That's where this becomes even more critical Because we when our kids are having trouble in school, we are often turned to to try to help figure it out. And this is where, you know, I started my business because my own kids struggled in school for so long, and I was that bewildered parent. You know, people, teachers, administrators would say to me, like, you know, something needs to change.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:12:42]: And I'd say, woah. I don't know what I'm not the expert here.

Penny Williams [00:12:48]: Yeah.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:12:48]: How am I supposed to know? And so the burden really gets placed a lot on parents. And because there isn't this broad knowledge in education around how to meet the needs of all of these kids. And so if we can do, as parents, do more of that work, and I know it sounds like a lot, and sometimes it is, the more we can understand things like executive functioning, things like how, you know, your child's ADHD shows up for them in school. And the more we can really advocate and do so, you know, you you mentioned that kind of paradox about wanting to suggest things while also not trying to be in this. I hear this a lot from parents being that parent, you know, the Yep. The pushy, the overbearing. It's a huge concern for parents.

Penny Williams [00:13:35]: Yeah.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:13:36]: Right? And yet, I often talk about, like, reframing that. Okay. Let's reframe this this fear around being that parent. What if what we're really doing is being proactive? Right? So that takes it from being a negative to, you know, more of a positive. What we're really trying to do, our goal is not to, be adversarial. Our goal is to help, head off problems to make the teacher's job easier. Ultimately, that's our goal.

Penny Williams [00:14:04]: Yeah.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:14:04]: Right? Because nobody wants to be frustrated, teachers or parents. Wouldn't we rather have done a little work now and save ourself a lot of hassle later? Mhmm. So part of it is, like, us as parents just, like, reframing that and thinking, like, okay. Are there ways to do this that don't burn those bridges, that don't create that adversarial relationship? So that means, you know, hey. I've been, you know, doing some research about how my son's ADHD is really impacting him at school. Can I share some of that with you instead of you need to read this article?

Penny Williams [00:14:46]: Yeah. Or these 20 articles.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:14:49]: Or these well, yeah.

Penny Williams [00:14:51]: We definitely don't wanna do that.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:14:52]: No. So being open and offering resources in a collaborative way, you know, you'll find teachers who say, oh, yeah. That was really interesting. I didn't know that. And, but I you know, sometimes we don't always find that collaborative, you know, welcoming, but we gotta, like, keep showing up for our kids.

Penny Williams [00:15:16]: Yeah. That permission for sharing just hit me like a ton of bricks because never in my child's whole school career did I ever ask before I shared information, but how different that tone would have been. And and what teacher's gonna say no? Like, they're gonna say yes. It may take a few days before, you know, you get a response. You're able to share it. That would have been painful for me. But had I done that, it would have changed a lot of of conversations. And the just the the dynamic, the energy between us would have been different.

Penny Williams [00:15:56]: Not that I was going like, you need to read this and you need to implement this, but I would share things without being asked or prompted when I thought they were relevant. And it just struck me that just, like, asking that question, can I share this with you? This is what I'm learning, would be such a different way to go about it that would be so much more positive.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:16:17]: Yeah. And I mean, there are some who are more welcoming, you know, who might say, for instance, like, oh, I wanna know more about this. Like, give me all you know? Give me all the information. But if you have somebody who's more hesitant or who, you know, I've encountered teachers who say, like, I know what I'm doing.

Penny Williams [00:16:32]: Mhmm.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:16:33]: I'm an experienced teacher, and so they see you can tell that they see it as a a potential threat to their authority.

Penny Williams [00:16:40]: Yeah.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:16:40]: That's where these kinds of, you know, strategies of leading with the curiosity piece can really help soften that defensiveness and open them up to saying, like, okay. Maybe I do have some things to learn.

Penny Williams [00:16:56]: Yeah. Yeah. And, too, it opens the door for collaboration. Like, it's setting

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:17:01]: Mhmm.

Penny Williams [00:17:02]: The foundation for collaboration. It's just doing so much. That one little strategy does so much. It's so helpful. Wow. Where were you fifteen years ago?

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:17:13]: Well, I mean, I wish I could say that I always, you know, I always did it myself too. But, you know, we live and learn Yes. And we try better the next time.

Penny Williams [00:17:24]: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It just sends the right message. It sends a different message. Or it can't be misconstrued, I think. Like Mhmm. I was very kind and wanted to be collaborative with teachers, but that's, like, the next step toward like, I see that you're overwhelmed.

Penny Williams [00:17:41]: I don't wanna overwhelm you with information. Can I share this with you? Right? We're seeing that they have lots of kids in the classroom. It isn't just ours. We're sort of quietly acknowledging that they have a lot on their plate Because a lot of times when we come in advocating strongly, it's felt that we don't get Mhmm. That they're overworked and underpaid and have a lot of students and have a lot on on their plate. You know? And so it really sort of addresses that too, which can really get in the way.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:18:12]: Yeah. And I encourage parents as well to find other ways to be supportive of a teacher so that you are also showing up in ways that remind them that you care about their success. So, you know, when there's a call for volunteers, can you be someone who, you know, raises their hand? Are there ways that you help around the school or participate in the PTA or whatever that might look like. So you are seen as someone who cares about the success, you know, of the school and of that classroom and that teacher, and that you're not just in it for your own child's success.

Penny Williams [00:18:52]: Because Mhmm.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:18:52]: I do think that makes a difference.

Penny Williams [00:18:54]: It does for sure.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:18:55]: Yeah. These are all, like, two way relationships and, you know, the if I scratch your back, you scratch mine thing. We have to be willing to give in our relationship too.

Penny Williams [00:19:07]: You have to be willing to give to get. Right?

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:19:10]: Mhmm.

Penny Williams [00:19:10]: Yeah. Yeah. And if you don't have time, if you can't volunteer, if you work during the school day or whatever it might be Right. There's other ways to make teachers feel seen and valued. Right? Take them a coffee. Take them a $5 Starbucks card.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:19:25]: Yeah. Like Or participate in, you know, teacher appreciation week right about the time we're, recording this. And it doesn't have to be a lot of money. I don't you know, you don't have to spend money, but a card

Penny Williams [00:19:37]: Yeah.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:19:37]: Even a handwritten card that says I value you, I appreciate the work you're doing, and I really appreciate the relationship that we're building together to support my child. Who doesn't love to be acknowledged?

Penny Williams [00:19:53]: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It can be such a small gesture. And there are things that they could use help with, especially in the younger grades in elementary that you can take home with you. Like, they can send things home with your kid for you to cut out or do something with and send back. So there really are a lot of opportunities. I think we tend to get sort of tunnel vision around what volunteering for school looks like.

Penny Williams [00:20:18]: Yes. And it can really be a lot of different things. There were a few times over the years that I took stuff home that I could do for the teacher to help them out when I couldn't be there in the classroom to do it.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:20:29]: Right. Or, you know, you show up on the weekend when there's a big playground cleanup

Penny Williams [00:20:34]: or Yeah.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:20:35]: Whatever that might look like. But but if you can find things that fit into your schedule, I think it goes a long way to just showing your commitment to the bigger school community and their success.

Penny Williams [00:20:54]: So now we've set the tone Mhmm. Right, to have a collaborative relationship. We're working on that, and we want to share some information about how our kids' brain works and what might be needed to help with that if there's a mismatch between that Mhmm. And education, which there often is when we're talking about neurodivergent kids. Can you give us some phrases or conversation starters or, you know, how do we talk about the brain in a way that's received well by teachers and understood, and also leads us to that conversation about, okay, what can we change? What can we do? Right.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:21:34]: Well, we've kind of talked around some of them already. You know, that curiosity goes a long way again. So you can say, I'm learning that my child has some challenges with executive functioning, and I'm really wondering how we can think about that at school. What are you seeing? You know? It's the the leading with exploration. You know? I think about it like putting your detective hat on.

Penny Williams [00:22:01]: Yeah.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:22:02]: And that's the kind of questioning you want to do and also, you know, acknowledging their expertise. I mean, the truth is, as parents, we send our kids off to school, and we cross our fingers and hope for the best. Right? Because we are not there. You know? And that's

Penny Williams [00:22:21]: what we're told to do. Right. Like Right. That's what we're told at how far.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:22:25]: They get older, we're really told to

Penny Williams [00:22:28]: Yeah. Hands on.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:22:28]: Not get involved. So we are not an expert. You know, some who are you might be educators themselves, but most parents are not educators. So we're gonna, you know, try to mine their the teacher's expertise. Well, what have you found that's worked for kids like this in the past?

Penny Williams [00:22:46]: Yeah.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:22:47]: You know? It could be that they have had strategies they've used before, but they haven't really thought about using them in this particular setting. Or, you know, things are busy and they hadn't thought about, oh, yeah. That one time I tried this. You know? So we're just trying to, like, be collaborative and open up conversations and know too that, like, one conversation is probably not gonna, like, solve the world. Mhmm. It is not gonna do everything that you wanted to do. That's just how it goes. So my other suggestion would be to just, like, be the person who follows up.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:23:19]: Yes. And so if you have a meeting, for instance, send a thank you note or email that just says, like, I appreciate a meeting. These are the highlights of what we discussed. Because everyone's busy. Right? They're they're not gonna remember and, you know, if you can be the one who's kind of tracking that, that's super useful. And asking for, you know, can we have another meeting in two weeks and see how this goes? So we're just still taking on some of the responsibility for being that collaborative, like, leading with kindness and leading with good intention. That's another thing I always talk to people about. Mhmm.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:23:59]: We're assuming that they want to do their best for our kids. Yeah. We're just gonna, like, go into every conversation with that is our you know, the the lens through which we're entering our conversations.

Penny Williams [00:24:10]: Even if it doesn't feel that way to you, you still need to do it.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:24:14]: We still need to do it. Yes. Mhmm. Because it helps soften those defenses. Right? That Yeah. The prickly stuff that we all do when we feel a little, like, someone's coming at us. So we're just assuming, and that means that if you've asked a question and you haven't gotten a response, just send another email. Just say, like, just double checking this might have gotten lost

Penny Williams [00:24:39]: Yeah.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:24:40]: Without the, like, they didn't, you know, response to me.

Penny Williams [00:24:43]: I sent you this email at 09:12AM on April 4. Yes. And it said this, I have no response. What is wrong with that?

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:24:51]: Response. What is wrong? No. What is wrong is that they have, you know, 30 kids in their classroom. And, and the other strategy I also encourage is to try to meet them, the teachers where they are at, with regards to communication. So this is another thing we can ask. How would you like me to best communicate with you? What works best for you? Because I might be on email all day, but they are not on email all day. Some some people, you know, like responding to parents via email. Sometimes they're like, please don't send me another email.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:25:27]: I have

Penny Williams [00:25:27]: Yeah.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:25:27]: 2,000 unread in my mailbox. I will never see it. So okay. So would you prefer that I drop in after school at pickup? Is that easiest for you? So then you're, like, really trying to make life easier for them in getting that communication flowing. So whatever you can do to be the flexible one always helps.

Penny Williams [00:25:51]: Mhmm. Yeah. You're addressing their needs so that they can address their needs. Yeah. Right?

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:25:57]: Yeah.

Penny Williams [00:25:58]: Yeah. Everybody should get what they need. And we talk about this with our kids all the time, and it's no different in these relationships. Everybody has a need, and everybody deserves to have their need met. Yes. And keeping an eye on that, I think, is helpful.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:26:12]: And it's true that their schedules are not flexible. Right? That it's just the nature of their work. So if we can just acknowledge that, like, I know that you can't meet during the day or in the evening because it's also true that they they don't really they're not contracted to meet in the evenings. So can you find a way to make your schedule flexible enough to meet after school? Because that's when it works best for them.

Penny Williams [00:26:36]: Mhmm. Yeah. For sure. And if you do have conversations, follow it up in writing, as you were talking about earlier, sending that thank you and follow-up. Like, we do want to make sure that it's recorded in case we need it at some point in the future. And so any verbal conversations I had, I always made sure to follow them up. I tried to follow-up meetings too. I learned that sometimes, like, there's just miscommunication.

Penny Williams [00:27:01]: I might walk away from a meeting with expectations that are different than the teachers and educators walk away with, and so when you follow it up, you get to figure that out before everybody's on each other's throats. Right? You get to figure it out early when it matters.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:27:18]: That's an opportunity to say these are the notes I have from the meeting. If you have any edits or anything you'd like to add, let me know. Right? You're opening it up to Mhmm. This is what I'm remembering and what I wrote down. But if there, you know, if there's something else, just let me know. Yeah. It also just says, this is not set in stone that I am right. This is Mhmm.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:27:40]: You know, and they might come back and say, oh, I don't remember us talking about that piece, you know, or I had a different understanding. Okay. Then we're in conversation about it.

Penny Williams [00:27:51]: Mhmm. Yeah. And I would always send those emails too with, if there's anything that's on your to do list that I can take care of, let me know.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:27:59]: Oh, I like that one.

Penny Williams [00:28:00]: Because I did have flexible work. I was doing different work then, but I still got to make my own schedule. And so I could make myself available to be helpful. Like, I wanted them to feel that I didn't expect them to do everything for my kid. We were in it together to get him what he needs and deserves.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:28:19]: Yes.

Penny Williams [00:28:20]: It wasn't that I was just like, well, you need to do all this. Mhmm. You know? And sometimes, no matter how hard I tried, I would still get met with that defense from educators, and I think it's just from past experiences. Like, it doesn't mean that necessarily you did something wrong as a parent in the way that you were having conversations or anything like that their prickles might already be up as a protection because people are blaming them in the past or you know like everybody has a backstory everybody has history and we try not to bring ours to the table, and we hope that they don't either, but we do have to recognize that sometimes, you know, that's what's happening. It isn't necessarily about us or our kid or them not caring. It's that, you know, hard things have happened.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:29:07]: Yes.

Penny Williams [00:29:08]: And they're still carrying some baggage.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:29:10]: And they might have gotten burned in the past by, you know, parents who were overly demanding or aggressive or, you know, I'm sure I'm sure they often have stories they can tell. But let's try, if we can, to not be one of these stories. Yeah. Let's try to be the one that they look back on and say, you know, I think they helped me, you know, learn a little bit. That I I was just telling the story the other day and I'll share it here that when my kid was really, really having a hard time in elementary school, we had a teacher who was a lovely person. She was so nice, but she kept coming to me saying, something's gotta change. Like, this is not working. All of the things.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:29:53]: Right? And that's where I left feeling, I have no idea what to do. So we went through this whole process in the year, and she said to me, I'm an experienced teacher. I've been teaching for, you know, a decade. I know what I'm doing. And that was her way of shutting down the conversation.

Penny Williams [00:30:09]: Mhmm.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:30:09]: Right? And I don't so to your point, I do not know what was behind that, but it was a pretty clear, like,

Penny Williams [00:30:16]: Hard line in the sand. Yeah.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:30:18]: Don't tell me what to do. But because I felt like she was a kind person, I think she was a good teacher, but it was just not the strategies were not working well in the moment. I started bringing her information and we, you know, I kept throughout the year, like, we were trying some things and I kept sort of, like, in a very friendly way, trying to push things a little bit forward. And at the very end of the year, she came to me and she said, you know, remember when I said that I knew what I was doing? I think I actually learned some things this year. And it was well, it was frustrating to have had to go through all of that. Yeah. It was also like, okay. There is some, like, real goodness right there that this is an experienced teacher who is willing to say, you know, I learned some things.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:31:04]: Great. Right? Mhmm. That opens the door for the next parent. So we're also in addition to, like, building those strong relationships for ourself, I think we're also showing teachers this is what's possible. Yeah. Right? So, hopefully, the next time, they're not feeling prickly, And they have, you know, better collaborative stories to tell about working with parents and learning and being, you know, open.

Penny Williams [00:31:31]: Mhmm. I'm such a visualizer as we've been talking, like, the last half of this conversation. I'm imagining a detective partnership. You know, usually, police officers, detectives, they're they're in they have a partner. Right? And so the parent is one partner. The teacher is one partner. And your detectives, you're trying to figure out what's happening, and then the extra layer for us is, what can we do about it? Right? So it's like this collaborative, to use Ross Greene's old term, collaborative problem solving. Like, we can do that together Yeah.

Penny Williams [00:32:06]: With the teachers. And if we just go in with that mindset that we're doing this work together, I think it helps on both sides. Oh, absolutely.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:32:17]: And it takes pressure off. Right? To feel like, oh, I am not alone. Mhmm. Someone else is invested in my kids' success.

Penny Williams [00:32:25]: Yeah. Yeah.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:32:26]: I mean, that feels huge as a parent. That's what we want. And teachers want to know that parents are invested in helping them be successful.

Penny Williams [00:32:37]: Yeah. Yeah. That you're supporting them too.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:32:40]: Mhmm.

Penny Williams [00:32:41]: That support can go both ways. Yeah. So for parents listening, what would you say is their one first small next step to take action on what they've learned from this conversation?

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:32:54]: Their first action is to ask a question, an exploratory question about what are they noticing? Was there an assignment that was particularly difficult? What can you let's ask a question about that. You know, I noticed these math equations were kind of challenging when we were doing the homework. You know, how can we support him in in figuring out these concepts? You know, whatever it is, pick one investigative question and send an email or ask after school or find a way to open that door just a little.

Penny Williams [00:33:27]: Yeah. I love that. It really does go a long way. It is really powerful just to set that relationship and that tone of that relationship and the energy.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:33:36]: And I will say that it's never too late. Right? And Mhmm. The end of the school year is actually a great time to be doing that investigative work because it will benefit your child next year.

Penny Williams [00:33:49]: Yeah.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:33:49]: So it's not as if the end of the school year means, oh, there's nothing to pay attention to because it's all gonna be over. No. We're actually, like, we're gathering that information so we can move it forward with us.

Penny Williams [00:34:01]: Mhmm. I've been thinking a lot about back to school prep because I'm gonna do the back to school prep week again this summer in 2025. And as you were talking, it dawned on me that we need to do an end of school year debrief. Like, what has the teacher noticed? What times of the day are harder? What activities are harder? Like, is there a kid who shouldn't be in class they shouldn't be in class together the next time, which happened to us. And, fortunately, I was able to work with administrators who are open to saying, okay. We'll make sure that they're not in a classroom together. You know, there's so much information there that we can get, and, of course, teachers don't have time to do 35 debriefs, and that's just elementary if they have six classes with 30 some kids. Right.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:34:46]: It's a lot. It's a

Penny Williams [00:34:47]: lot, but you know if you can just be strategic in asking a few questions, then you'll have some data going all the way back to the beginning of what you were guiding us through to then use to maybe set them up for a little bit more success as you move into the next school year. Maybe there's some data from this year that would be really smart to share with the new teacher at the start of next year. Right?

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:35:13]: A 50%. This is exactly what I like to talk about this time of year because, you know, that teacher has had now nine months to really get to know your kid. And rather than just letting that information and data, like, go poof into the ether, what can we do to document it? You know, what have we noticed? Can you write it down? There are all sorts of ways you can do that. I also developed a tool called the teacher fit template, which is basically like using that information you gather and then writing a letter not to request a specific teacher because most schools will not let you pick favorites about teacher placement, nor should they really. But to talk about what your specific kids' needs are and how what you know about classroom settings where they thrive. And then letting them use that information to inform their decisions about class placement.

Penny Williams [00:36:06]: Mhmm. And, you know, administrators really do want their job to be easier and more successful. They wanna see their teachers succeed. They wanna see the kids succeed because it does make it easier for them. If you know something about a teacher fit or something about the class placement, they really do wanna hear it. They don't want you to come in and say, put my kid in this class. Yeah. But if you have valuable information, it's gonna save them time and stress in the long term, right? If it can make a change in that placement.

Penny Williams [00:36:41]: So we were fortunate to have several administrators over the years who were really collaborative with me on that. Okay. This is, you know, the three teachers that we have to choose from, these are sort of the ways that each one focuses their classroom or the ways that they instruct, and what do you see about the potential matches here? And then they're sharing what they see about those potential matches as well because we did have some really bad fits.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:37:08]: Mhmm.

Penny Williams [00:37:08]: There was even a school year where my kid was moved to a different teacher at the beginning of the fourth quarter.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:37:14]: Oh, jeez. That's hard.

Penny Williams [00:37:16]: Because it was so bad, and it was actually it was magical. The new teacher was just amazing. It didn't have the social impact that I thought I was gonna have. And I even run into other parents who had kids in that original teacher's classroom with us in the last few years. You know, our kids are young adults now, and they will even say, oh, gosh. Did you know she's still teaching? Did you like, it wasn't a good fit for anyone necessarily. It's not even just

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:37:44]: the teacher's approach, although sometimes that makes a big difference. It's also, like, the class dynamics. Yeah. And if you know that, you know, your child gets really dysregulated when there's a lot of chaos and that there are certain groups of, you know, or high needs students who they might not be a good fit with, that's all really valuable. Yeah. Right? And to your point about switching classes, I mean, sometimes that actually is a decent option.

Penny Williams [00:38:12]: Mhmm.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:38:12]: I had just a couple of years ago, my son was doing that well in his math class because it was a high need group. He got really dysregulated, and then he caused you know, then he starts, like, contributing to the problem. Mhmm. And we were able to talk with the school counselor and talk with the teacher and come up with a plan to move him just into another section. And then he did great. You know? So sometimes, it's like these little tweaks can make everybody's life easier.

Penny Williams [00:38:38]: Yeah. We just need to see the signals. Mhmm. We need to see the behavior as signals and then ask the question. What do they need? Why is this not working? Right. And then do something about it.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:38:48]: Mhmm. Yeah.

Penny Williams [00:38:50]: Scotty, I always learn so much from you. Will you tell everybody listening where they can find you online so that they can connect and learn more and maybe work with you?

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:38:58]: Oh, well, thank you so much for that. You can find me online at reframeparenting.com. And there, you'll find a blog with lots of good information. I just wrote a blog post the other day about after school restraint collapse. So that one is one I have some, some strong, experience with. But you'll find all sorts of information on my blog. I'm also starting up my own podcast soon.

Penny Williams [00:39:23]: Oh, yay.

Scotti Weintraub, MA [00:39:23]: It's gonna be called unlocking school success. So be looking for that on my it'll all be on my website.

Penny Williams [00:39:30]: Awesome. And I will link that up in the show notes for everyone at parentingadhd and autism.com/314 for episode 314. I'll see everybody next time. Take good care.

Penny Williams [00:39:44]: Thanks for joining me on the Beautifully Complex podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share, And don't forget to check out my online courses and parent coaching at parentingADHD and autism.com and at thebehaviorrevolution.com.