No-Guilt, No-Yelling Parenting Strategies for Neurodivergent Kids
with Amy McCready
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Amy McCready 0:03
The Power Struggle happens when we are trying to impose our priorities on our kids. And so often the way we do that is with these very heavy handed approaches, and it's not sustainable. They may comply, they may submit initially, but over time, they will push back.
Penny Williams 0:23
Welcome to the beautifully complex podcast, where I share insights and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches. I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author and mindset, Mama, honor to guide you on the journey of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started.
Welcome back to the beautifully complex Podcast. Today, I am really, really excited to be talking to Amy McCready of positive parenting solutions. I've been following Amy for a long time now and really love the work that she's doing. And I'm so excited that we get to share some of that with all of you who are listening. Thanks for being here. Amy, do you want to start by letting everyone know who you are and what you do?
Amy McCready 1:12
Absolutely, Penny, thank you so much for having me. It's such a treat to be on with you. So for your listeners who don't know me, I'm Amy McCready, I'm the founder of positive parenting solutions. We provide online parenting training for parents of toddlers, to teens all over the world. I feel like I've been doing that forever. I'm also the author of two parenting books, if I have to tell you one more time and the Mimimi epidemic. I also serve as a parenting contributor for the today's show, as well as other national media outlets. And I'm a mom of two grown up men. And I have a new daughter now. So it's just my thrill to be able to work with parents and really help them make their parenting life more fun and less stressful. And just to bring out the best in their kiddos, just like what you do day in and day out.
Penny Williams 1:59
Yeah. And it's fun work to help people, isn't it? I think, let's talk about no guilt, no yelling, parenting, which we all need. You talked about reducing the stress. And oh, boy, that's a big piece of it, I think is feeling confident in what we're doing as parents so that we don't feel like we have to resort to yelling, or we don't feel bad about the way that we're handling things. Do you want to maybe talk us through a little bit about what you mean by no guilt, no yelling parenting?
Amy McCready 2:32
Yes, absolutely. Well, I think as parents, we tend to put so much pressure on ourselves. And that's why we feel that sense of guilt, right? We always feel like we're never living up to the shoulds. You know, I shouldn't be more patient, I shouldn't be less of this. But you know, it's just so much pressure that we put on ourselves. So I like to help parents with that. But what I really like to focus on is giving them tools so that they don't have to yell, they don't have to raise their voice. I refer to myself as a recovering yeller or a former yeller, because that was really my default, when my kids were younger, I would get like all parents do, you get frustrated with their behavior, you get angry, whatever. And because I didn't have a good toolbox to fall back on, I would resort to nagging and reminding and yelling. And in my work over the years with parents, I find that that is their biggest pain point, the yelling, and they feel so guilty about that. No parent wants to do that, and no kid enjoys it. And so I always tell parents, like we're never going to be perfect. I'm not going to tell you, you're never going to yell. But my goal for parents is, I want them to think, Hmm, it's been so long since I yelled at my kids, I can't even remember. So that takes a while. But we're not looking for perfection. We're just looking for progress and feeling like we are just rocking this parenting thing. We're never gonna be perfect, but we are rocking it.
Penny Williams 4:00
Yeah, I love that you brought up that we're never going to be perfect because I think we live in a culture that really pushes perfection. And always striving harder and harder and harder for that. And you know, there is no perfection. And it's something we talk a lot about here on this podcast. We also talk a lot about yelling and how that actually escalates behavior. It's funny to me now that I'm also a reformed yeller. And I can stand back right and look at those situations. It's amazing to me now that I thought and I really wasn't choosing right, this was reactive behavior, but that I am responding in the way that I'm upset for my kid to be doing to me in the first place, right and in the way that I don't want them to behave. So I'm modeling the opposite of what I actually want. When I'm yelling at my kids.
Amy McCready 4:51
Absolutely. Yes, we want our kids to control their emotions and control their behaviors but we can't do it. And you know, of course, this, you talk about this all the time that you know when that reptilian brain is activated, we're not thinking logically, we're not reasoning, we're not making decisions, we are totally in response mode. And when we do that, when we yell, we create that stress response in our kids. And so then they can't think logically or rationally, and it just creates this vicious cycle, that leaves everyone feeling badly. And then it really is not effective and actually changing the behavior that we were frustrated about in the first place.
Penny Williams 5:30
Yeah, it doesn't resolve anything, right? Because we can't problem solve when our thinking brain is offline. Absolutely. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about the two basic emotional needs that parents and kids have. I think this leads really into some strategies for no guilt and no yelling.
Amy McCready 5:50
Yes. So everything that we teach to parents on our program is based on the work of Adlerian psychology and positive discipline and, and within the Adlerian psychology realm, we always talk about the two core emotional needs that all human beings have not just children, those being belonging, and significance. And so when we refer to belonging, that's that need for emotional connection with the people who are most important to us. So for kids, obviously, it's for you know, their parent, or parents, with their siblings, even in the classroom, they need to have that sense of emotional connection. That sense of I belong here, I understand my place in this family, in this classroom, in this community, we all have that need for belonging and emotional connection. And then the other piece of that is significance. And that is the sense of agency like I, as the child, I make a difference, I contribute in meaningful ways, I have some sense of age appropriate control over my own life. So circumstance doesn't just happen to me, I have some agency in that. And for any human being, when their sense of belonging is not, they don't have strong sense of belonging, or their sense of significance, personal agency power and control, they don't have a positive sense of that, they will behave and respond in ways to try to have that emotional need met. Now, of course, they don't realize that's what they need, and they don't realize that's why they're doing it. But it explains a lot of the behaviors that we see in our kids, if we're not giving them sufficient positive attention and emotional connection, will tend to see that attention seeking behavior, they're not doing it on purpose, they're just through trial and error, trying to figure out what it's going to take to have that need met, or when kids are pushing our buttons and trying to have control over a situation. They're they're trying to have that need met, but they don't know how to go about it positively and productively. So, so much of what we do is helping parents understand just like you do, that all behavior is telling us something. And if we can sort of dig into why the behaviors happening in the first place, then we can be much more strategic and effective in the strategies that we use the parenting strategies, the discipline strategies.
Penny Williams 8:17
Yeah. And I love that you bring up the sense of belonging and the sense of agency, because I think that's even more critical for our neurodivergent. Kids, they often struggle with that more, they struggle to connect with others sometimes, or to have meaningful relationships, they definitely struggle with having some agency, everybody's telling them what to do and how to do it. And when that doesn't work for them, we don't open the door for them to take control and tell us what they need, right, we, we just keep trying to make them fit in that box. And so as a parent, being very aware of the fact that these are the critical emotional needs of our kids, when we're raising neurodivergent kids is really, really important. So I'm so glad that you highlighted that.
Amy McCready 9:01
And to really make it simple for parents, I like to kind of take it down to two buckets, attention and power. And or maybe we can call it attention and control whatever sort of resonates with you. But if we can really think about filling those two buckets with our kids every day, that one on one positive attention, so they don't have to demand our attention in inappropriate ways. And then giving them that sense of agency and control and positive power. Focusing on those things on a daily basis makes a world of difference in our kids behavior. There's there's two kind of simple things to really work on. But it makes such a difference in behavior.
Penny Williams 9:42
And it's so proactive. And I just had an amazing AHA as you were talking about that, in that we had an episode with Kirk Martin A while back of celebrating calm, and he was talking about sibling issues and resolving sibling quarrels and fights and his his big perspective on that was that it's often out of boredom or trying to get a need met, that they're suddenly, in the throes of discontent with siblings, and that you need to take them aside and kind of, make them your helper or, and it's really, it's exactly what you're talking about giving them the attention and control that they need. And it was just seeing them, what we would say act out in situations where they don't have that, like, they need that deep down inside, right, it's an internal sort of drive. So it can happen, as you were saying, sort of automatically. You know, we talk a lot about polyvagal theory and the autonomic nervous system and the way that behavior isn't often intentional, it's our body's response is biological. And so, we have these needs and when they're not met, our biology kicks in, right, and it drives us to get these needs met.
Amy McCready 11:04
Absolutely. And, I like for parents, when I'm in a class with them, if we're talking about a particular behavior, I'll ask them, if your child in their four year old or 14 year old voice, if they could articulate if they were aware of what they're feeling and what they're needing, what would their four year old or their 14 year old voice tell you, and really trying to have the parents see it from the child's perspective, I'm feeling out of control, or I don't feel like I have spent any time with you, I feel like that when we're together in the same room, that you're multitasking, either you know, scrolling on your phone, or even multitasking in your mind, I don't feel like you're here with me, mom or dad. And so kind of putting it in the child's voice is so important. The one other thing that you mentioned, Penny was the sibling issue. And, and kind of back to that attention bucket, one of the things that we find is that when parents are proactive in doing daily, we call it mind, body and soul time, mind, body and soul time is 10 or 15 minutes with each child when you are one on one fully present, and mind body and soul and doing what the child wants to do. So it's not a parent directed activity, it's whenever the child loves to do for that 10 or 15 minutes, if we are doing that on a daily basis, we give them that sense of emotional connection, that there's nothing more important in the world, in these 15 minutes in this time that I'm spending with you. And the beauty of that is that the sibling rivalry really starts to me, it doesn't go away forever, but it is reduced. Because so much of the sibling finding you mentioned boredom, which is a huge piece of it. And another piece of it is competing for the parents attention. And so when we provide that up front, it gives them that hit of positive attention, but it's also very regulating. Yeah, when you have that emotional connection with the people that are important to you, it just regulates your central nervous system. And we just find that the tantrum type episodes are reduced. So many of those frustrating up and down emotional situations that we get into really start to be reduced, because it's just so emotionally regulating for the child.
Penny Williams 13:20
They're already there. Yeah, you've already set the foundation. Yeah, I love that you call it mind, body and soul time. I love it. It's so good. And you know, we don't talk about being proactive in this way. Often enough, I don't think I don't think it's something that is necessarily a natural thing to do. As a parent, we want to spend time with our kids. But we kind of do our best with that. And I don't think we really just sit down and consciously think about the fact that we can meet our kids needs proactively. And not only, maybe for it some behavior issues, but also help them to feel good about themselves and to grow and develop. And you know, all the good things that we really want for our kid. And so, I love that we're talking about that. I think it's so, so important and valuable.
Amy McCready 14:10
You know, one other just quick little point, I just keep talking about this. He's going on and on. But so often, we're spending time with our kids, but it's with the kids together. Right? Or family time. And that's all important and great. But the magic happens in the one on one time. That's where you see the biggest changes in terms of that emotional regulation and the you know, the improved behavior, fewer less sibling rivalry. The magic is in the one on one. Yeah. Even though we're still doing the family time as well.
Penny Williams 14:44
Yeah, it's super, super important. When we have kids with differences because they get more of our time and energy, because they need more right? They get more because they need more. But when you're a kid and you're seeing that and it feels competitive almost as a sibling, it's soup. are hard, right? So yeah, I love that we're talking about that, too. It's really, really important that our kids know that we value time with just them to it makes them feel so special and important.
Amy McCready 15:12
Penny Williams 15:15
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Let's pin it a little bit, I know you talk about some truth bombs in your program. And I want to talk about some of those a little bit because I think that they're really, again, all of these little tidbits that you're giving us are sort of like tick points on our compass. And they're going to help us do some of that foundational work or make some shifts that are really going to help that are also you know, within the realm of positive parenting, which you and I both feel like is the right way to parent for lack of a better word in the moment. The best, that doesn't sound any better. So let's talk a little bit about some of these truth bombs, these things that I think really make us adopt the right perspective on behavior, which is so so important. One of my favorites, is parent priorities are not the same as Kid priorities.
Amy McCready 17:16
Yes, it's one of my favorites, too, because it took me so long to figure this out. And with all of these truth bombs, your listeners are gonna think Da yet like so what right? But when you think about how these truth bombs relate to your kids behavior, it's so eye opening like just that statement, parent priorities are not the same as Kid priorities. You know, your kids don't care if they wear clean underwear, they don't care if the wet towel is on the bathroom floor. Those are our priorities. They don't care if the family jobs, chores, whatever you call them, get done. Those are our priorities. And the rub, the power struggle happens when we are trying to impose our priorities on our kids. Yep. And so often, the way we do that is with these very heavy handed approaches, and it's not sustainable, they may comply, they may submit initially, but over time, they will push back. And that's where we get into these giant power struggles, we have to remember that parent priorities are not the same as Kid priorities. And that leads me to another truth bomb, which is that human beings are born with freewill. Again, we all intellectually know that, but think about what that means for your kids, whether they're neurodiverse, or neurotypical, whether your child is 18 months old, or 18 years old, the decision on whether or not to cooperate with you to take responsibility to do the right thing. It's always their choice in the end, right? We think we can make them behave and threaten them and all bribe them, whatever, whatever strategies you're using, we think we can make them submit to our well, but they have free will. And while they may go along temporarily, it's never a sustainable solution. And so that's why making sure that we're using strategies that work with their hardware need for power and control is so important.
Penny Williams 19:11
Yeah, that ties right back into that control piece. You know, I tell parents all the time, you have to give your kid a sense of control. You may be worried about the choices that they'll make. And you can sort of set boundaries and manage that, but we can't just dictate to kids and expect them to follow. They're not made that way. Nobody is now you know, and I think just again, culturally, we're taught that kids are a reflection of us, and that they're sort of these little clones of us and they're supposed to be like us because they're our kids. And none of that is necessarily true. You know, I'm always talking about parenting individuals, teaching individuals like we need to start recognizing that kids are their own little people. They need our guidance and help and Love, and support and connection, right, but they need to also be themselves. And we need to give them that power and control to do that.
Amy McCready 20:09
Absolutely. And I always say to if we expect kids to do what's important to us, whether that's picking the towel up off the floor, or folding the laundry, or emptying the dishwasher, or whatever the doing your homework, whatever those things are, if we want them to do what's important to us our priorities, then we also need to make sure that we're doing what's important to them again, which comes back to that whole mind, body and soul time, the attention bucket, taking the time treating them as individuals. So it all you know, it's all connected, but just trying to force our will on them is never going to work.
Penny Williams 20:42
Yeah. And we see that more, once they get to be teens. Like it really just sort of stops, right. And so often, we just think of that as a team thing. But I think that's just when they've had enough and they finally really assert themselves.
Amy McCready 20:59
Absolutely. And you made the comment about choices earlier. You know, we can call all the shots, we can give all the direction and tell our kids what to do. But then, of course, they never get practice in that. And then you know, down the road when they are teenagers, then we're, scared to death. Yeah, because of their poor decision making or the choices, they're making that sort of thing. So the more that we can give them choices, agency control, whatever you want to call it over the little things where the stakes are not as high yet, the more practice they can get in that, they're going to have much better decision making skills when they get into the teen years where the stakes are a lot higher.
Penny Williams 21:38
Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up. It's so true. I wanted to talk to you about with blame, shame and pain, punishment, we create an environment that virtually guarantees kids will lie. Lying is such a huge hot button issue, especially for ADHD. But I think in the neurodivergent realm in general, and we attach such judgment to lying. So I love that you really address that as by saying that we set them up for this. Do you want to talk a little bit more about that one?
Amy McCready 22:10
Yes, absolutely. So let me start by just sort of defining what we mean by blame, shame and pain punishment. This is actually a positive discipline definition. You may be familiar with the work of Jane Nelson, she always defined punishment as as opposed to discipline, but she defined punishment as any tactic that would cause the child to feel blame, shame or pain. That could be physical pain, it could be emotional pain, feeling shame, when the parent makes the child feel guilty, shameful about what they've done. All of those strategies, make us feel bad make us close down, we completely lose the learning opportunity with our kids when that happens, because it's like that wall goes up, that they just have to protect themselves. It's a completely instinctual reaction, whether you're a little person or a senior citizen, you protect yourself from that blame, shame and pain. But when you think about what happens when a kid messes up, makes a mistake makes a poor choice. If we as the parent come in with blame, shame and pain, punishment, and, guilt and threats. And you know, whether it's physical or emotional pain, the child learns that, oh, boy, that's a really bad thing. And so if I mess up, if I make a poor choice in the future, I want to avoid that blame, shame and pain at all costs. So of course, I'm going to lie to get out of it. And for so many of our kids, especially ADHD, kids, lying almost is reflexive, right? Yeah. But for all kids over time, they learn that lying is a way to avoid an unpleasant situation. Adults lie for the exact same reason. So I always tell parents, like lying is a perfectly reasonable kid response. Yes, don't get totally wigged out about it. But recognize that and that's the truth bomb. If you are using blame, shame and pain punishment, if you are using fear and manipulation to affect behavior, you're creating an environment that virtually guarantees or kids will lie to you. Instead, if we create a safe environment for the truth, right, if you make it okay to make mistakes, and, create that safe environment where they feel comfortable when they mess up coming in telling you that's a completely different scenario. And in even for those reflexive liars. You know, it's gonna happen, you made the comment about it. It's such a judgment issue, right? They're not a bad person. Yep. Something came out of their mouth before they even thought about it. And we just deal with it. But we don't have to have all that blame, shame and pain around it. But to your point, parents just get so panicked when kids lie. And that's when they come down heavy with the punishments and, they feel like kids have to suffer for them to learn not to do that behavior in the future.
Penny Williams 24:57
Yeah. And it's that authoritarian parent model that we We all seem to think is what we're supposed to be doing. And it's so unhelpful and unhealthy. And it sort of boggles my mind now that we ever thought that that was a good thing to do, or but you know, it's just almost sort of hardwired into a lot of people. And it's really hard for parents to back that up and turn it around, especially if you were raised by an authoritarian parent, it gets so ingrained in you. And it's really hard to sort of pause and say, Okay, I want to handle this differently, I want to respond in a different way I, something else might work better, it can be really challenging, it takes a lot of practice, like you were saying, at the very beginning, it takes time to make these shifts in your parenting, and it's okay, if it's just a little bit at a time, but you'll get there, knowing better means doing better.
Amy McCready 25:52
Even for parents who are like, Okay, I'm gonna do positive parenting, and they're really trying to adhere to the positive parenting strategies on the topic of lying. That's where they revert back to the authoritarian approach. Mm hmm. Because they're just like, we just can't have this, we just can't have it. And so the only way to shut that down is to get tough and go back to it's like that reflexive reaction back to the authentic authoritarian, parenting style. So it's really fascinating. So creating that safe environment for the truth takes practice. And it takes time. And so do not be discouraged parents, as you're trying to move in that direction for your kids to still be lying, because they don't really trust it yet. They don't trust that new safe environment for the truth. And that paradigm will take some time to change. But that will shift over time. And you'll be so happy that you made that move.
Penny Williams 26:43
Yeah, yeah. And allowing for imperfection to you know, we're talking about, providing an environment for truth. But we also have to provide the environment for making mistakes, and it being okay. And I know, we've talked a little bit about that before, but it just brought me right back to that as you were talking, we have to let our kids see that we're human beings too. And we make mistakes, too. Because if they never see us make a mistake, then when they make mistakes, are they really going to want to come and tell us that they made a mistake? No, they're gonna want to try to cover it up. Right? So yeah, I think those go hand in hand.
Amy McCready 27:19
Yeah. And I'm just such a proponent of, really coming clean with your kids, early and often. Whether you raise your voice or you know, whatever it is, whatever it is, that was not your best parenting moment, like really come clean with that and just say, Hey, I just want to tell you that the way I just talked to you a few minutes ago about that, whatever, like that wasn't okay, I was short with you, I yell at whatever it was. And, and I want to let you know that I'm working on that. And this is what I'm going to try to do in the future. So that doesn't happen again. Of course, we don't say, I yelled at you, because you left your backpack on the floor. We're not putting it on the child, we take personal responsibility for that. But what great modeling that you know, we're not perfect, we mess up all the time. And when we do we come clean, and it's cool. And you can do the same thing when you mess up.
Penny Williams 28:08
Yeah. So so powerful, great stuff, I want to get to one of my other favorite truth bombs, which was misbehaving is never just a kid problem. Because I don't know about you, but I think about 95% of it is our parenting.
Amy McCready 28:26
Oh, my goodness, yes. And so I don't know whether you had this situation. But when my kids were younger, and I was really struggling with behavior, and my kids were just, they just did the normal kids stuff. I just wasn't equipped with tools to direct that in a more positive way. But I was just so sure that I had to, like, learn these strategies to fix my kids. And what I learned pretty quickly is that you know, so as you said, so much of it is our parenting and our responses. One of the things that we have parents do who take our online course is go through a parent personality assessment. And that helps you identify which aspects of your personality may invite different responses or behaviors from your kids. So as an example, like I'm super controlling, I score, like off the charts on the controlling end of the spectrum. And it's no surprise that I had a lot of power struggles with my kids before I learned, you know how to manage that more effectively. So we always say that misbehavior is never just a kid problem. We own at least 50% of it, if not more, yeah, but that is actually a really exciting thing. Because once you are aware of how your personality and your communication style is inviting certain behaviors and your kids, then you have the power to change that. So while we're 50% of the problem, we're also at least 50% of the cure as well. And so that's nothing to feel bad about. It's actually a great opportunity. And just with some very simple tweaks, parents can see a pretty quick improvement in In behavior, and they feel better about it as well. So it's good news on all fronts.
Penny Williams 30:04
Yeah. And it really goes to show that we do have more control as parents than we think we do. You know, when we can't specifically control our kids behavior, we think that we don't have control as a parent. But actually, it's that we're just like going about it, and maybe the most effective way. Because if we figure out how to change what we're doing, and that affects behavior in a positive way, then guess what, we just had control over it, right? We're just coming at it from a different angle, but so much more effective.
Amy McCready 30:34
Absolutely. And then you're modeling more effective communication strategies with your kids, which, over time, they'll start to pick up on those as well.
Penny Williams 30:42
Yeah. So much amazing information that you've shared in such a small amount of time. And I'm so grateful. I want to ask you, as I do with each guest. Now, at the end, what is one action item that parents can walk away from listening and immediately implement what is something that they can do?
Amy McCready 31:04
Well, I have to say, mind, body and soul time, because I just strongly believe that if there's a silver bullet in parenting, that is it. When we give that 10 to 15 minutes of one on one time, that's one parent, one child, no other distractions. If you have a partner, they're not around, your phone's not around, you're fully present and mind body and soul, doing what the child wants to do. That feels that sense of belonging and significance behavior improves, the relationship improves, that helps with emotional regulation. It's just the silver bullet if there ever was one.
Penny Williams 31:38
Too little magic, for sure. Yeah, it is. I love that, we give so much information. And people also need to know okay, well, what do I do with that now. So, at the end of each episode, we like to give them a little piece of action that they can take.
Amy McCready 31:52
Yeah, and the other thing, I don't want parents to feel overwhelmed by that, that can happen during the bedtime routine during the tucking routine. As long as it's one on one, you're fully focused in mind, body and soul as opposed to like rushing them through the routine. But I also like to label it at the end. So you can call it Sophie and mommy time, or you can call it mind, body and soul time, or whatever word you want to use, but brand that because it reminds your child, yes, she spent that time with me, he filled my attention and power bucket. It's so powerful when we label it at the end of each time together.
Penny Williams 32:25
I love that. That's so amazing, changing little lives. For sure I know it will. Let's talk a little bit about what you offer, how parents can learn more from you. And then I will give them the link for the show notes where they can find all those links as well.
Amy McCready 32:43
Lovely, thank you so much for asking. So if parents want to work with us and learn all of the tools in the toolbox, and the scripts and everything that goes along with that, our online course is called the seven step parenting Success System. And it's an online video course with lots of coaching and support. And they can learn more about that on our website at positive parenting solutions.com. And if they're not quite ready to jump into that we also have a free one hour class, actually, but an hour and a half class. And it teaches parents how to use consequences really well. So if you're going to use consequences if the situation is appropriate for that, we have a formula that is so respectful to the child respectful to the parent, and really creates a learning opportunity for the future. It's not about blame, shame and pain punishment for the past. So parents can take that free class, it's called get kids to listen without nagging, yelling, are losing control, and learn the strategies there.
Penny Williams 33:39
I'm gonna take that class.
Amy McCready 33:44
I think you are just fine, I just love all the work that you do and a gift to parents.
Penny Williams 33:47
Working hard at it. So learning process, right? I mean, parenting is a journey. It's not, we're definitely not perfect. That's all I have to say.
Amy McCready 33:56
I'm sure you feel the same way I do. Even with grown up kids, you're always learning new strategies. So that's pretty exciting, too.
Penny Williams 34:03
Yes. And I'm so fortunate to be able to do a podcast and online summits where I get to learn a lot of things from a lot of people like you and I'm constantly learning in every conversation, even though I've been you know, up to my eyeballs in the ADHD community for oh gosh, 14 years or so now. So I'm still learning we're always going to learn it's just part of life. Absolutely. So everyone listening to get the link to Amy's website, social media, the course and the free classes. Well, you can go to the show notes for this episode, which are at parentingADHDand autism.com/178 for episode 178. Again, I just want to thank you so much, Amy for sharing a little bit of yourself with everyone listening and helping the families out there.
Amy McCready 34:55
Penny, thank you so much for having me. Thank you to all of our listeners. It's such a privilege to be with You and I'm just so grateful for all the important work that you're doing
Penny Williams 35:03
Right backatcha agreed. I will see everyone on the next episode. Take good care. Thanks for joining me on the beautifully complex podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share. And don't forget to check out my online courses and parent coaching at parentingADHDandautism.com and at the behavior revolution.com
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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