154: The Necessity of Radical Self-Care, with Shelly Tygielski

Picture of hosted by Penny Williams

hosted by Penny Williams

Listen on Apple Podcasts  |  Google Podcasts  |  Spreaker  |  Spotify  |  iHeart Radio

Self-care is a necessity, not a luxury. Even more so for parents raising neurodiverse kids, like those with ADHD or autism. And yet, self-care is the first thing we sacrifice as parents, thinking we are doing better by our kids and our families in doing so. The reality is, the less we care for ourselves, the less we have to give to others. Sacrificing your self-care is actually making you less able to give your all to others. 

On this episode, I’m talking to the author of “Sit Down to Rise Up,” Shelly Tygielski about radical self-care. Listen in to learn about developing compassion-based resilience and creating a community of care for yourself to prevent caregiver depletion and burnout. You’ll leave this episode feeling valued and inspired.

Resources

Some of the resources may be affiliate links, meaning I receive a commission (at no cost to you) if you use that link to make a purchase.

Subscribe to Clarity — my weekly newsletter on what’s working in business right now, delivered free, straight to your inbox.

Work with me to level up your parenting — online parent training and coaching  for neurodiverse families.

My Guest

Shelly Tygielski
Shelly Tygielski, a Florida meditation teacher, and mom started a movement from her kitchen table in March of 2020. Scrolling through messages and emails about the impact of Covid-19—many filled with fear of job loss, lack of food, and mounting bills; many expressing concerns for those in need—she was struck with an idea: What if she could connect people who need to get help with people who are able and eager to give help? So, that’s what she did. Her initial effort went viral, kicking off what would become Pandemic of Love—a global, grassroots, mutual aid organization. By March of 2021, Pandemic of Love managed to match more than 1.5 million people and made it possible for donors to directly transact $54 million dollars to those in need.

In Shelly’s book, SIT DOWN TO RISE UP: How Radical Self-Care Can Change the World (New World Library), she goes beyond the story of Pandemic of Love—which has gained her a spot on CNN Heroes and praise from President Biden, among other recognitions—to reveal the roots of her faith in mindfulness and her fervent belief in “showing up,” consistently, for yourself and for each other. “The premise of this book,” Tygielski states, “is fairly simple: When we are interconnected, when one of us heals, we all heal.”



 

Transcript

Shelly Tygielski 0:03

When you're at the point where you're teetering on burnout, you're so fatigued. The last thing that you do is make good decisions for yourself, you know? And the last thing you can think of if somebody even asks you, what do you need? What can I help you with? You're so overwhelmed at that point, your amygdala is so hijacked that you're like, I don't even know where to start. I don't even know what I need.

Penny Williams 0:27

Welcome to The Parenting ADHD podcast, where I share insights and strategies on raising kids with ADHD straight from the trenches. I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author, ADHD a Holic and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey of raising your a typical kid. Let's get started. Welcome back to The Parenting ADHD Podcast. I'm really excited today to be talking to Shelly Tygielski about radical self care and her new book sit down to rise up. Thanks for being here. Shelly, do you want to start by introducing yourself? For everyone listening?

Shelly Tygielski 1:13

Sure, definitely. Thank you so much for having me. So I am a reformed corporate executive, I spent 20 years in the corporate space. And about six years ago, I decided to leave that world behind to pursue my passion for teaching meditation and mindfulness. And I found myself in a space that I originally wasn't necessarily planning on spending most of my time in, which is in the trauma informed mindfulness space, working specifically with individuals who are in underserved populations, individuals who are in situations that are traumatic, like situations of gun violence, or mass shootings, or even refugees and refugee aid workers who take care of them. And as the pandemic really came about, I found myself working more and more as well in the space with first responders, and other individuals who were really not tending to themselves, but really focusing on tending to others. So, I have several different certifications. But my core practice, the one that I personally practice the most is really steeped in compassion based resilience training, and learning really, how to continue to expand our heart centers and have compassion, but not be a victim of empathy, fatigue, which can ultimately lead to burnout and to, just complete stress and breakdown.

Penny Williams 2:55

Yeah, absolutely. Such great work, and so needed right now, for sure. And I think it has been for a long time. Why don't we start with defining what self care is, because I think a lot of people have a really narrow idea of what we mean when we talk about self care.

Shelly Tygielski 3:16

Sure. So self care, really, first of all, let me just start by saying that the term self care has been hijacked by the industrial wellness complex, certainly in the last 2530 years, by beauty brands, by health, food, and gyms and everything else under the sun that somebody is trying to sell you for that kind of quick fix to feel good. But self care is actually born out of a struggle for survival. You know, today, we it's synonymous with thinking about how can we thrive, and really, at its course, self care was really born from the need to just survive, not to thrive, from the feminist movement from the Civil Rights Movement, and populations that really were incredibly, just completely disenfranchised and couldn't count on the system to help them survive. So they sort of had to create their own systems, and put their own safety nets in place in order to be able to just merely survive in this world that we're living in. And so if we kind of use that as the basis of like, where self care came from, then we can understand that self care is not indulgent, it's not self indulgent, it's not selfish, but rather, it's something that is hard work, and that it's sustainable work, and that it is really work that is beyond just the individual, we can really expand our definition of the self, right? The self that we think of as just existing in this physical body to extend beyond the individual and to include our family, our community, the natural world, and all sentient beings.

And what I write about in my book sit down to rise up is that you know, the best version of the world has To start with the best version of us, yeah, and for people that kind of thought is very lofty, certainly, if you're a caretaker or if you're a parent, or especially if you're dealing with, with extenuating circumstances at home, you're not even necessarily thinking about the best version of the world per se, right, you're thinking about how do I just get to the best version of what my home life can look like. But really, we have to kind of look at it from a very holistic with a W, a holistic perspective of the world itself. So I rest on really this like beautiful Buddhist proverb, that is that we need to attend to the area of the garden that we can reach. And if we each do that, if we each just focus on tending to the areas of our garden, right now looking at somebody else's garden, not looking at the neighbor's garden, or the area of the garden, we can't reach at this moment, because we're incapacitated, or there's an obstacle there. And we just focus on that, on making that the best that it can be and showing up for that, then I think, the world could really look very different.

So self care, really, is not necessarily always fun work. It's actually it can be really hard work, it could mean getting rid of some of the vices that you might be relying on to, sort of escape. Yeah, what it is that you're trying to escape from, yeah, things like exercise, and things like even just a daily meditation practice, that doesn't yield results overnight, going to the gym one time doesn't mean you're going to walk out with a six pack immediately. And certainly, practicing a 12 minute meditation may make you feel better in the moment. But certainly in you know, few minutes, you can find yourself right back where you started if you don't continue to really strengthen those neural pathways. And so, so self care is really the way that I like to frame it is as my friend Dr. Misha Jaat, references it, it's about building not resilience, but about building pre zillions. And it's not about focusing on recovery, but it's about focusing on pre covery.

What comes before, how do we handle a situation. And we need the moment, the moment of trauma, the moment of stress of duress of outrage, and be as prepared as we can be for it mentally, physically. And most importantly, communally, yeah, that part is really important as well. So I think going back to, the notion that self care is not individualistic, that it is communal, it has to be communal, because the self extends beyond just this physical body. And that also means that we have to rely on each other, we have to be able to build these systems, even if they're kind of like these closed loop, hyper local systems, where there are other people that are helping us helping us enact these measures of self care to help build, that resilience bank account, if you will, or pre zillions. But we need to be able to create these systems that make it easier for us to ask for help. And maybe even beyond normalizing asking for help make it so that people can identify when we need help. And maybe we get to the point where we don't need to ask for help.

Penny Williams 8:19

Yeah, I love that you brought up that it's not about the individual per se, because, in a family unit, yeah, when mom, for instance, takes care of herself, she's in a better place to take care of her kids, right. And what we find is that we have this culture that says, you must sacrifice yourself, as a parent, for your child, you must give all of yourself in order to do the best you can for your child. And it's actually not true. It's not even possible. Yeah. And it's so maddening to me, because we still are very much perpetuating that idea. And a lot of self care is general wellness, like my emotional health. You know, for me, it was a lot of letting go of things that really didn't matter, really focusing on stress and managing stress in a way that it was going to be less negatively impactful. But when I started really taking better care of myself, mostly mentally and emotionally at the start, I could see the differences in my family, I could see the differences in my house, because I you know, I have a certain energy that I'm giving off, right? And they're taking that in and they're interpreting it. And you know, if mom's exhausted and frustrated and just on her last leg or Dad, you're not going to do very well for your kid in that moment. Right. So, right. It's really this whole picture of all of us. It's a communal thing and I love that you really are bringing that out.

Shelly Tygielski 9:54

Yeah, I mean, well, I think that also you know, the other component of this when I say Camino, so care, that sounds nice and lofty and people are like, yeah, yeah, we rely on each other. And I have my, my girl squad and I've got my friends and I have this. But that's really not what I'm talking about when I say communal care at all, what I'm talking about when I mentioned communal care is formalized communal care, formalized self care plans. So what I really you know, teach, and I've now worked with these parameters with these templates. And I've taught many, many workshops from spaces, like I said, with first responders, but also with social justice and political activists, for example, who also are like always on the brink of burnout and fatigue, I basically teach them how to create formalized self care plans, self care plans that are incredibly precise.

And that they are if you can imagine it, sort of the fire extinguishers that are in the glass that says break in case of emergency, because what oftentimes happens is that when you're at the point of depletion, when you're at the point where you're teetering on burnout, you're so fatigued, the last thing that you do is make good decisions for yourself, and the last thing you can think of if somebody even asks you on the off chance, what do you need? What can I help you with? You're so overwhelmed at that point, your amygdala is so hijacked that you're like, I don't even know where to start. I don't even know what I need, but if you have something that's prepared, that's formalized.

First and foremost, is a self care plan. And you made the effort and the attempt, not just attempt, but the effort actually to share that self care plan with at least one other person and say, hey, look, these are the things that I need to enact on a daily, weekly, monthly annual basis, right. So something on a daily basis might be meditation for 10 minutes, or a walk, or something like physical. And something weekly, might be therapy sessions. And something annually, maybe something like a mammogram, right, like biometric types of things that we also kind of put off, put off, put off until something goes wrong, right? Yeah. And so by formalizing this and sharing it with at least one other person, with kind of like a self care, buddy, who does the same thing, we suddenly start to build in these levels of accountability, we suddenly start to build in these measures of motivation, because we as caretakers are certainly the types of individuals that would rather let ourselves down and let anybody else down, right?

So make promises somebody else, hey, I'm going to do this on a daily basis. And they call and say, Hey, how did that go? Or did you get that done? We won't want to let them down. But if it's just us, and we can press the snooze button for another nine minutes, and we'll do it, exactly. So it's really about the formalization. What I personally did, and I share this story, when I was a single mother, and I was going through a lot of health issues, personally, losing my vision, it's just I had been diagnosed with a degenerative eye disease, and told that I would be blind. And, there was just a lot going on in my life at the time, and I had a toddler, my son is 19 now, but he was a toddler then. And I just knew I couldn't get by on my own, and relying on people just saying things like, take care of yourself, or let me know, if you need anything was just not enough for me. I was like, no, no, I need to know who's gonna be there. And I need to not feel bad about asking for help.

So I gathered, half a dozen women, some who were friends, some who were like acquaintances, that later, obviously, became really good friends. But we all sat together at my house one day and created self care plans for ourselves and started to realize that the things that I need help with, or that I'm suffering from, somebody else could fill that need, and the thing that that person needs I could do for them. And, and it was this beautiful sort of ecosystem, the symbiotic ecosystem that evolved, which is really incredible, and that created this safety net, for me that created this place where there was mutual aid that could be enacted, and it was mutually beneficial. And I didn't always feel like I was the one sucking the life out of everybody, but rather that I was also able to contribute in some way to my community of care. And the beautiful thing about it was that I didn't again, have to necessarily always ask, like, people could identify, we did regular check ins as a group and somebody would say, Hey, you seem really stressed out, like, what can I take off your plate versus me going to somebody and saying, like, Oh, this is what's happening. And you know, I've deferred it now for two weeks. So it's even worse than it was before and I really need help with this. So these are the kind of formalizations and the structure, the infrastructure that I talk really deeply about in my book and that I teach in workshops all over the country.

Penny Williams 14:55

I love that so much. It is so needed. Like it is so neat. We need to have a way to lean on each other without feeling bad about it. And by formalizing that plan in the way that you're talking about, we're removing that from the equation. And you know, you don't have to always ask for help, sometimes you're giving it, and sometimes people are offering it. And that's really sort of that balance that I think we need. And we tend to be so closed off sort of, there, there are certainly people who are social and have lots of friends or people who are not social and don't have really a framework, there are a lot of single parents who may not have any family around to support them. And so, this is a way to sort of build that support. Right, when maybe it doesn't come so naturally to you.

Shelly Tygielski 15:48

Yeah, exactly. Well, and I will say that it doesn't come naturally for anyone. And sometimes to be honest with you, like, even if you do live near family and support systems, it can be overwhelming to them, too, because you constantly are turning to the same people again, and again and again. Right, right. And I think that sometimes also in family structures, like, somebody always gets the brunt of it. So like the person who is deemed to be the strongest, or who has their life the most together, we don't feel as bad like asking mom to take the kids, then as we would if we would be sort of more tempered about it, asking somebody else to do it on our behalf. So, so I actually found that not relying per se, even living next to my parents at the time that I was going through this, yes, of course, it was great to have them there. And it was important, they were important reinforcement and, but they are also aging, and they needed to take care of themselves as well. And so I didn't want this to become a burden for them either.

And, that was part of my own consideration of like, I need to find other women like me, who are struggling in some way, with just kind of keeping all the balls in the air and figuring out a really great ecosystem that we could continue to expand upon, right? Not just say like, okay, these are the five women in our group, but rather, eventually that self care community became 30, plus women strong magazine. So imagine that, you have 30 Women who are all on a regular basis, sharing their self care plan. And at the time, there was no Google shared drive. So we were just like sending back and forth, spreadsheets and emails, but we were able to really share with each other like, hey, these are the things that I need help with this week, like I, have to make room for this doctor's appointment, and I don't have who to take care of my son or somebody to pick him up and take him to karate, or there's no way I'm gonna be able to, like, make it in time for dinner, can somebody make sure my kids have like lasagna on the table or whatever, a casserole, you know. And so there were all these beautiful ways that we were able to show up for each other.

And it was like, exactly what happens after there's a natural disaster, having lived in Florida and lived through so many hurricanes, it's like, suddenly the world just stops, like, what kind of like what we saw during the pandemic, and people are more willing to give help and to step up. And so what if we don't need natural disasters? What if life is just a natural disaster, like every day, create the conditions that are like, post disaster conditions that create this symbiosis, and this leaning on each other, the safety net that I really feel like it kind of used to exist when our parents and grandparents were growing up, and we sort of through the technological age, and through industrialization, and moving away, and etc, and certainly moving away from even religious organizations, that there are many, positive reasons to move away from it. But there's also a lot of things that kind of like having that community that was either, based around the church or the synagogue, a mosque was like, gave to the community as well, right. You know, so I think moving away from all of these things, there's this void.

And so what do we fill it with? You know, and I think that really communities of care are the way to fill it to system that really needs to be a pillar of every single household, every community and something that's openly discussed. And then, that way, I really do think that it starts to change and shift the culture of expectation of what we expect from people and you know, also the stigma of asking for help.

Penny Williams 19:28

Yeah, it sounds so beautiful, and I hope we get there. For sure, one small self care community at a time that sort of takes like, like you said earlier, if we tend to our garden, it will affect others. I want to talk for a second can you just kind of talk about how does someone get started with us? How does was just given example, a single mom of a young kid who doesn't really have a lot of support right now, but how does she find other people? How do you determine Herman, what should be part of your self care plan?

Shelly Tygielski 20:03

Well, so a self care plan is, there's so many templates online. And people always ask me, like, what's your favorite template and I say, Well, what my favorite template, what works for me isn't necessarily what will work for you. Some people are very, sort of visual, and they need something that's like colorful and charts and, has like a color coded system. And some people are very like to do list oriented, and they want something that is just really, broken down in that kind of a manner. And so if you just go to Google and you Google self care plan template, there will be I promise you 1000s of different templates, PDFs that you can download and you know, JPEGs, and ideas that you can sort of reach for and you will find one or a few that resonate with you, and that you feel like, okay, this visually makes sense to me or kind of, I can wrap my head around it. And generally speaking, they all going to point in the same direction in terms of what they ask you for, they ask you to sort of start putting down into different types of buckets, what your self care needs are, or what your break in case of emergency, contents of that glass are four different types of spaces like emotional well being, social well being financial well being physical well being etc, etc. It also asks you usually to list you know, the people that you can rely on.

And you know, sort of what your intentions are that you want to start to really make sure that you're incorporating these specific intentions, not goals, but intentions into your life, right, as you're working towards this to kind of being better and being healthy and to wellness right into this pre zillions that we're talking about. How do you make sure that you're not just adding another thing to do list, but rather that it's in sort of a stepping stone in pursuit of greater well being, and so you start there. And once you sort of get to a place or arrive to a place where you have a plan that is structured that is formalized on a piece of paper, you don't just stick it in a junk drawer in the kitchen, or like, under a pile of mail. But rather, I would say either start with one the power of one a friend, a person, that you are an acquaintance with somebody who you might be working with somebody that maybe your child goes to school with, and that person might also be a single mom, just find at least one individual, again, don't have to be friends with them. They could be an acquaintance, many of the individuals in my self care community, or literally just acquaintances, I only knew them by first name.

And, I knew that they had their kid going to karate with my kid, like something like that, right? It wasn't any more than that in terms of like, what connected us at that point? And what you find is that in that kind of space of vulnerability, suddenly you realize, wait a minute, I thought I was all alone in this. And it seems like everybody's feeling the same way I am. Right? Exactly, we start to share and talk about it. So basically, like you start there. And what I always tell people is like, Well, when I say self care community, people get overwhelmed. And they're like, I don't really know how to start. And it's really because we're like thinking about this thing that we supposedly don't know how to do. But we do these things all the time, if I would say to you baby shower, or if I would say wedding shower, if I would see book club, or if I would say any other number of kinds of gatherings or things that you surely at least once in your life have either planned or participated in, right? You would know what to do, more or less, you wouldn't feel as overwhelmed because it's familiar to you. We are as you know, a species we are afraid of the unknown.

And so when I say community of care gathering, people are like, well, what is that? I don't know what that means. I don't have all the details, therefore, I can't do it. And really, it's not dissimilar to any one of these other types of gatherings that you plan. You know, you can even now in this day and age, do it on Zoom, right? I tried to opt for and prefer in person meetings, because a better way to get to know each other, but I would look geographically at people who are in your geolocation, because it is very hard to besides mentally support it is very hard to support somebody, with tangible things if you're like a state over Right, right. So geographically look at you know, the people that are sort of proximate to me in my circles of influence work, school, places of worship, etc. And I would just put out like a blanket invitation just like you would for again, like a book club or a gathering of an affinity group, a knitting club or what have you.

And just say, Hey, I'm thinking about putting together this communal gathering you can put it on on my first one was put on Facebook events, and I just posted If I had no idea who would show up, I really had no idea. And I was just really surprised when I saw that there was, a dozen or so women that showed up, and eventually that this community continued to grow and grow, because it spurred something in them. It spoke to them when they saw community of care, self care community or safety net, or, whatever it is that you want to name it, they were like, Oh, that's interesting, what is this? You know, and I wrote probably two or three sentences about the kind of ideal that was spawning this gathering, and really inspiring it. And I think it touched a nerve with the people who needed to show up in that moment. Yeah. And so that's really how you start, yes, it takes a moment of bravery, it takes write the Facebook event, or the Eventbrite post, or create the flyer, or, however it is that you want to do it. And I would say, you can sit on it for a little while, until you get that 15 second burst of courage. If it seems really like overwhelming for you to do that, or put yourself out there. And just, um, hit send at that point. And then once you kind of do that, there's no looking back, and I think you'll be better for it.

Penny Williams 26:15

And I think it kind of grows on its own over time, too, because I may only have one or two friends or acquaintances to bring in, but they may have other people to bring in, who also need this community of care. And so even if the idea of finding 15 people to be in this community of care is overwhelming, start with one, like, that's a good place to start. And it doesn't mean that it will stagnate there, it can grow as well. Years ago, when my son was young, I started just by having coffee with one mom, who I had actually worked with her for years and had no idea that we had similar challenges in parenting at all. And one day it came up and we said, oh, well, we should meet once every couple of weeks and have coffee, and then she knew somebody else. And then she knew somebody else. And there were four of us. And we did it for several years we got together. And that's such a tiny aspect of what you're talking about. But it illustrates that, you can start with just a seed, and you can move and build forward from there

Shelly Tygielski 27:23

Well, and that brings us full circle back to the garden, tending to the area that garden reach you when you tend to their of your garden, you get to choose in that area, what you want to plant and what seeds you want to plant, right and how they'll flourish. And we oftentimes discount the power of one. And you've just illustrated it so beautifully with the story that you told that really, if you just start with one and you're willing to be vulnerable, just magical things can happen.

Penny Williams 27:49

Yeah, absolutely. Anything else you want to talk about? Before we close anything we haven't mentioned that feels important to you?

Unknown Speaker 27:57

Well, I mean, I do want to just let people know about an organization that I started the beginning of the pandemic, which is very much based on these principles called pandemic of love. We were recognized by CNN Heroes last year, and website is pandemic of love calm. And basically what it is, is it's a global mutual aid organization that assists people in need, financial needs, mostly, sometimes other types of tangible needs, like diapers, Formula wipes, bills, certain bills that have to get paid, etc. And so if there's anyone that's listening to this that has financial constraints are needs and wants to fill out an application. It is, as I said, it's a mutual aid organization. So it's not a nonprofit, there's not a lot of red tape and bureaucracy, you fill out a form and you're matched with somebody in your community that can fulfill that need. So if you need a bill paid or if you need assistance with anything, you can fill out that application and you'll get connected to somebody and then on the flip side, if you have access or you have enough and you are willing to assist somebody in your community that might need help. There's also a forum for people who want to connect with others. So,

Penny Williams 29:09

That is so beautiful, I love that. I love that it breaks down barriers you know, you're pulling people together from all over exactly. Amazing. We've had such a wonderful time talking to you and learning more about self care, I'm really getting inspired to do more not just for myself, but for the self care of others as well and building these communities of care. And for anyone listening. You can go to the show notes for this episode, I will link up pandemic of love as well as Shelly's website and book and any other resources in social media, so that you can learn more from her and her work those show notes or at parentingADHDandautism.com/154 for episode 154. And again, Shelly i just i appreciate you so much and what you've shared here today with our audience.

Shelly Tygielski 30:05

Thank you so much Penny. I really appreciate you and I am sending so much love to all of the parents that are out there listening and know that it can be a tough road. But I think that if we go at it together, we can make it a lot easier.

Penny Williams 30:20

Absolutely. With that, we'll end the episode now. see everyone next time. Thanks for joining me on the parenting ADHD podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share. And don't forget to check out my online courses, parent coaching and Mama retreats at parentingADHDandautism.com

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Thank you!

If you enjoyed this episode, please share it. Have something to say, or a question to ask? Leave a comment below. I promise to answer every single one. **Also, please leave an honest review for the Beautifully Complex Podcast on iTunes. Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and appreciated! That's what helps me reach and help more families like yours.

Hello!
I'm Penny Williams.

I help stuck and struggling parents (educators, too) make the pivots necessary to unlock success and joy for neurodivergent kids and teens, themselves, and their families. I'm honored to be part of your journey!

Pinpoint the
Help You Need
right now

Take my free quiz to cut through the overwhelm and get focused on the information and resources that will help you and your child RIGHT NOW.

free video series
Quick Start: 3 High-Impact Actions to Transform Behavior

Transforming negative or unwanted behavior is a long and complex process. HOWEVER, there are a few actions you can take right now that will provide a big impact. These 3 high-impact strategies address foundational aspects of behavior, empowering you to help your child feel better so they can do better.

SOME OF MY FAVORITE TOOLS

1

Makes time visual for those with time blindness.

2

Blends gaming with off-screen activities to teach coping skills through play.

3

Manage chores and routines while building self-confidence and independence.

4

A chair that gives kids a sensory hug.

About the show...

I'm your host, Penny.

Join me as I help parents, caregivers, and educators like you harness the realization that we are all beautifully complex and marvelously imperfect. Each week I deliver insights and actionable strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids — those with ADHD, autism, anxiety, learning disabilities…

My approach to decoding behavior while honoring neurodiversity and parenting the individual child you have will provide you with the tools to help you understand and transform behavior, reduce your own stress, increase parenting confidence, and create the joyful family life you crave. I am honored to have helped thousands of families worldwide to help their kids feel good so they can do good.

Listen on Apple Podcasts  |  Google Podcasts  |  Spotify  |  iHeart Radio

Share your thoughts.

Leave a Reply

Start Typing