Carrie Bonnett [00:00:03]: Some kids have a hard time pic some kids have a hard time picturing themselves doing a task or what it looks like to be ready to walk out the door. Sometimes an actual photo of the dressed child with the backpack and the water bottle and their iPad and their jacket can be really helpful. It seems really simple, but those types of things can be super, super helpful.

Penny Williams [00:00:29]: Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches. I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author, and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started.

Penny Williams [00:00:51]: Welcome back to Beautifully Complex, everyone. I'm so happy that you're here. I have here with me Carrie Bonnett, and she is an executive functioning coach, and we are gonna talk about executive functioning and how we can help our kids with those daily tasks, those daily activities, things that complex kids often struggle with. Keri, will you start by letting everybody know who you are and what you do?

Carrie Bonnett [00:01:17]: Thank you for having me. I'm Keri Bonnet. I am an executive function coach. I live in Bend, Oregon. I work with students and families, mostly middle school and up, but also adults who are struggling to get their important things done. And so I work 1 on 1 with with sometimes with students, with their whole family. I do parent presentations and teacher trainings, and I love, love, love talking about executive function. And so I'm so glad to be here.

Carrie Bonnett [00:01:47]: Thanks, Penny.

Penny Williams [00:01:48]: Yeah. I'm super excited to talk with you to get another perspective on executive functioning and also strategies, really practical and actionable things that our parents who are listening can take with them and help to support, right, and empower their kids. Let's start with sort of defining executive functioning for anybody who doesn't know what it is and maybe the aspects of our day to day life that it might impact.

Carrie Bonnett [00:02:18]: Yeah. To be honest, I wish we had a different term for this thing. Mhmm. So executive function, they are brain skills. So executive function skills are brain skills that help us get our important things done. Like I mentioned a moment ago, getting our important things done, But it doesn't like, that term, I don't love it. I wish we had something else. I don't have a I I don't have an alternative, though.

Carrie Bonnett [00:02:39]: I haven't come up with one yet that I think is better, but it comes from the word execute. Right? Like, we have to execute tasks, and so that's where this term comes from. So what we're talking about really is things like time management and organization and emotional regulation and planning and getting started. Like, all of these are are skills. And for in my work, there's skills that we must teach to students, teach to kids. So, the executive function skills are real important, especially in the day to day, and also the research is really clear. They have to be explicitly taught. We don't just learn them from the atmosphere.

Penny Williams [00:03:22]: Yeah. Yeah. And we we've come to expect that, though, that Oh, yes. Kids just grow up and they naturally learn skills. Right? And, I guess, for maybe a few kids, that might be true. They'll learn most of it along the way, but especially for our complex kids, kids who have neurodivergence, they really need some explicit instruction and scaffolding and support. Right? Because not every executive functioning delay is going to come up to be 100% at some point in their life. Right? So sometime you know, there are people who are really great at organizing and planning.

Penny Williams [00:04:02]: There are people who just really aren't wired that way, and so they need strategies and supports and tools. Right? So let's talk about some of that for first, I think, let's talk about how does it impact the day to day for our complex kids, like morning routine, homework, bedtime routine, those sort of things, having what you need when you get to school or having what you need when you get home, how are these delays in those skills affecting those times?

Carrie Bonnett [00:04:33]: I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is it can be really stressful for a kid. I mean, you know, we're talking about kids in particular. For a student who struggles with any of that stuff, their morning routine, getting up in the morning, getting out the door, making sure they have the materials when they get to school, If there are challenges, it's stressful, right, for the kid and also for us as the parents and the teachers, but it's stressful. So and I mentioned the emotional regulation is part of executive function too, and so that Yeah. Becomes especially necessary to talk about is, like, what do we do when they don't have their materials or when they're rushing to get out the door again and again and again? So, you know, what are the what are the things that we can do to you mentioned scaffolding. I love that. Right? Like, what can we do as as the adults in their lives to make it less stressful? And, I mean, honestly, the way I describe my work is, like, you know, part education. Like, what is this thing called executive function? But, also, like, how what are the strategies to make life easier? That's it.

Carrie Bonnett [00:05:35]: Like, that's what we want is we wanna make life easier. And, usually, kids are open to that. They they're interested in in making life easier. Adults too. Yeah. Yeah. Making life easier.

Penny Williams [00:05:45]: I think we all are. As you were talking, I was thinking, like, proactive steps and in the moment, like, what can we do. Right? So do you wanna talk about maybe some proactive steps first? Like, the first step, I think, is figuring out where your kids' executive function is. Where are they delayed? Where do they need support? What pieces of executive function are they may be really good with?

Carrie Bonnett [00:06:13]: I love that. When I when I work with families and do any kind of presentation to any adults, I always actually ask the adults to recognize and sort of figure out how their executive function is first before then making an assessment of a kid. I mean, we know the things that that our brain is not great at. I I could tell you right now there's some things that are not my brain is not awesome at. Things like like changing gears, like flexibility, that's not my brain's strong suit. And so even backing up before asking how are my students' executive function skills, I think it's important as adults to, like, just recognize, oh, these are the things that cause me stress. And then, yes, then recognize, are they the same skills that our that our our students are struggling with? Maybe not. In my house, some of the things that my brain struggles with are also the things that my kids struggle with, but not all.

Carrie Bonnett [00:07:09]: And so I I do think it's helpful to do some self reflection and then figure out, like, okay. Is it time management? Is it planning? Is it just waking up in the morning? Like, is it sort of seeing the future, like, thinking about, like, rehearsing for the morning that you know that you're gonna have to get up and then get your sports gear and then you have to have your breakfast? You know, is it what what is the skill that is the most challenging? And then, of course, you know, one of the things that I talk about with clients all the time is that you cannot attack it all at once. So, like, baby steps, little by little, really, really tiny tiny scaffolding at first. Right? Like, we can't we can't try to attack it all at once, so choosing what's affecting us the most.

Penny Williams [00:07:55]: Yeah. The highest priority. Mhmm. I love that you brought up taking little steps because that is one of my big things that I do for myself, but it's also become a thing that I really focus on in coaching other parents. Like, as long as we're making some progress, it really doesn't matter how tiny. If we expect all at once, we're all gonna get disappointed Totally. Because we know it can't happen. But if we expect small steps and those are doable, now we have successes.

Penny Williams [00:08:28]: And from some successes, those can snowball, right, into more and more successes, where if we just say, hey. You've gotta do this, and it's not attainable all at once, then they feel like a failure. We get frustrated, and everybody wants to give up. Right? It just sets it up as a very different process and different energy in my mind.

Carrie Bonnett [00:08:49]: And I like to honor and recognize and celebrate the little baby steps, the little wins. Mhmm. Because, I mean, let's be honest, the kids that I work with and the parents of kids that you work with, I it's not easy. Right? And so they get a lot of negative feedback. So as when we can celebrate the little wins, that is huge too. That's really helpful.

Penny Williams [00:09:11]: Yeah. Yeah. How do we determine those priorities? Are there some executive function skills that help in a lot of areas and some that might help in smaller areas? Like, I'm thinking, what's foundational Yeah. That we can work on that could really help in a lot of areas? Maybe that's the biggest priority.

Carrie Bonnett [00:09:33]: Yeah. I mean, I what comes to mind for me is the emotional control part and also which is similar, but sort of impulse control. Right? Like, I call it being able to say not now

Carrie Bonnett [00:09:44]: To the big emotions or to something impulsive some impulsive behavior. And most of the strategies around those two skills are preemptive in nature. Like Yeah. How was their sleep? Have you had any food today, or are you getting a little hungry? Or what about have you moved your body lately? Or or what about 1 on 1 connection with your your kid? Like, having some alone time, some connection. So are there things you can do in the moment? Absolutely. But those are the things that come to mind. You mentioned the word foundational. I that's that's what I see as foundational is, like, this impulse control.

Carrie Bonnett [00:10:24]: Can I say, nope? You know, I'm not going to cry in class, or I'm not going to rage at my teacher even though I'm mad, or I'm not going to interrupt or grab or, you know, other types of physical impulsive behavior. Like, can you say not now? And sometimes the answer is no. Like, I can't say not now to those things. Yeah. So teaching things like breath work and mindfulness practice can be can be really great. Just naming. Just being able to name your emotions, naming the things that are going on. Like, oh, yes.

Carrie Bonnett [00:10:58]: I noticed. I love the word notice.

Penny Williams [00:11:01]: I do too.

Carrie Bonnett [00:11:02]: I love this, like, what do you notice? But you can't do that in the moment of heat. You know? That's too,

Penny Williams [00:11:08]: Right.

Carrie Bonnett [00:11:09]: Too difficult. Right? The brain's not ready for that. But after the fact, like, what did you notice about that? Sometimes students can't quite pinpoint it, and we can help them with that. Mhmm. I think those 2 primarily are the biggies, like, in terms of, foundational skills.

Penny Williams [00:11:31]: You sort of outlined some things that prime the system in my mind. You know, making sure that you've had good sleep, you've eaten, or your kids eaten, they've had some water, like, you know, they have maybe got some of the wiggles out or the energy out to be able to sit down and do a task, whatever it is. Like, we can set them up and their body up Mhmm. To be the most successful. If they're coming into a task regulated, then they're thinking, right, it's online and accessible. Right. They're coming into a task dysregulated. We're already really struggling with that cognitive function.

Penny Williams [00:12:05]: So executive functioning is gonna be super difficult if it happens at all. Right?

Carrie Bonnett [00:12:09]: Right. Right. It's almost shut off. Right? Like, when you're dysregulated, that that thinking part of your brain is not accessible.

Penny Williams [00:12:16]: Yeah. I'm wondering if we can talk about some specific strategies for some different times of the day that I hear a lot of feedback from parents that are the most challenging and were for me as well when my kid was young. So the morning, I think, is the one that just gets everybody. Everyone.

Carrie Bonnett [00:12:36]: Many things to do in the morning. There's so many things.

Penny Williams [00:12:39]: There's sequencing. There's organization planning. There's not getting distracted. There's making transitions. There's just so many things.

Carrie Bonnett [00:12:49]: I feel like there's a lot of transitions. Right?

Penny Williams [00:12:52]: Yeah.

Carrie Bonnett [00:12:52]: You have to wake up, then you have to get yourself to, hopefully, breakfast, then you have to brush your teeth maybe. They might have to get dressed. There's so many transitions.

Penny Williams [00:13:00]: Are there some tools or some strategies that you find really helpful at those

Carrie Bonnett [00:13:06]: times? Yes. I would say as a general theme, a couple things come to mind. 1 is I call it making the invisible visible, which is, like, visual stuff. Right? Like, out of sight, out of mind is for real. So one of the like, I don't know. It's not really a simple thing because there's so much going on like you mentioned. But whenever possible to make all the invisible stuff more visible for our kids, that could be like a almost like a schedule. Like, by this time, we have to be here.

Carrie Bonnett [00:13:36]: By this time, we have to be here, and make it very visual, and keep it in your face. Like, it has to be insight. It could be using timers, or it could be using an analog clock of some kind to keep time. Time is invisible. Mhmm. To keep time kind of in sight. Some kids have a hard time picturing themselves doing a task or what it looks like to be ready to walk out the door. So I'm sure that you have talked to people about this before, but sometimes an actual photo

Carrie Bonnett [00:14:06]: of the dressed child with the backpack and the water bottle and their iPad and their jacket can be really helpful. It seems really simple, but those types of things can be super, super helpful. I mean, something we it's not really morning, but another sort of theme that I like to share with people is to try to be kind to future you. So, parents, be kind to future you by maybe doing some of the things the night before, if possible Yeah. Like making the lunch, like choosing breakfast even Mhmm. With your kid. Like, you could even create a little menu. Yeah.

Carrie Bonnett [00:14:40]: And they check, I would like, you know, yogurt and cereal and fruit. And then that's that's what's for breakfast the next morning. So, like, coming up with ways to not have the morning be so packed and so fraught, including visual things. I think making all that stuff more visible. Mhmm. And maybe visual cues. Right? Like the photograph. And you mentioned getting distracted.

Carrie Bonnett [00:15:01]: I I have a daughter who definitely gets distracted during breakfast.

Carrie Bonnett [00:15:04]: What do you got there?

Penny Williams [00:15:05]: For anybody watching this on video, they can see, but I have, this new product from Time Timer. They sent this to me, and I was so in love with it because not only does it have the Time Timer with the disc, it has all these little cards of, like, tasks for kids that you clip at the times, and it has a dry erase marker to write on here. So you could make your entire morning routine on here, and they can see the time going. And so as soon as you were talking about that, I was like, oh, I got my little favorite tool over here that I have to share for people who are watching the video.

Carrie Bonnett [00:15:41]: Let me show you one that I use too. So I love the fast timer, but I I have this little tiny analog clock that I use Yes. And these little Post it flags, you know? And same deal. Like, you just put you could label them, and this is when you need to be finished with breakfast, and this is when you need to be out the door, and this is what same idea. Right? It's just making it visible.

Carrie Bonnett [00:16:02]: I think one of the hardest things about, like, adulting or studenting or whatever is is just invisible. And it's weird. Sometimes time feels fast. Sometimes time feels slow. Yeah. But time is time. So, like, making sure that kids can see. Mhmm.

Carrie Bonnett [00:16:18]: And you mentioned the morning, but, like, for after school time also Yep. There's, you know, expectations that we have of our kids when they get home from school, but they're invisible unless we make them more visible.

Penny Williams [00:16:30]: Yeah. Yeah. That visibility was key for us too. Mhmm. Yeah. Like, for my son for cleaning up his room, like, if I just said clean up your room, we have very different ideas of what that looks like. Right? And so when he was younger, like, I had photos of, like, even with him in it with this area tidy. Okay.

Penny Williams [00:16:51]: This is what it looks like with your desk. This is my expectation. And it was a little flip thing so he could do one area at a time with the little magnet flip over it. And at the end, there was a reward because, let's face it, rewards are motivating also for all of us. Mhmm. And so having that visual was so, so, so important. And I could have explained, your desktop doesn't have anything but your computer on it or something like that. You know, all the doors of your dresser are pushed in, and your clothes are inside them.

Penny Williams [00:17:21]: It's different to have a visual. It makes a huge difference.

Carrie Bonnett [00:17:26]: Yeah. You made me think of when you were saying it was one thing at a time, like, I'm picturing it like a spiral flip chart or something. But Yeah. That's another thing to consider is, like, one instruction at a time in the morning too, especially in the morning. They're they're tired, and they're maybe not super excited to go to school. And another thing to just consider is that we tend to overload a kid and particularly their working memory. Like, they truly cannot remember more than 1 or 2 tasks or instructions at a time. So being aware of that as adults.

Carrie Bonnett [00:17:57]: Right? The the loving, caring adult in their life, we want them to be successful. So I love that that you just did one thing at a time. This is let's work on this thing right now. Don't worry about your bed. Don't worry about that. We're just working on your desk.

Penny Williams [00:18:11]: Yeah. It makes it less overwhelming too.

Carrie Bonnett [00:18:14]: Totally.

Penny Williams [00:18:15]: What about homework time? Let's talk about homework time because that's the other biggest struggle, I think. Uh-huh. And, you know, complex kids often don't like school or school is harder for them or, you know, they just don't wanna do any more school after they've been there all day, so it tends to be a time of great power struggle, big emotions. What can we do to set our kids up for success at that time?

Carrie Bonnett [00:18:40]: One thing I think is important is to have a conversation with your kid about after school. So my daughter, she's 11. She does ride the bus home, so she has, like, a significant break, I guess, between school and home, if you wanna call it that. But she likes to come straight home, literally sit down, and immediately work on anything and and get it done and out of the way. Mhmm. My son, not so much. Yeah. He would like to have a snack.

Carrie Bonnett [00:19:08]: He would like to shoot some baskets. He would like to just take a little bit of of a break. So I think knowing what your child needs, wants, and then honoring that can be powerful, while also acknowledging there's homework to be done. So, you know, you can't maybe your child says, I wanna play video games for 2 hours, or I wanna, like, do nothing until 9 PM. Well, let's put some boundaries on that as parents. Maybe you offer a choice. Like, do you wanna start your homework at, you know, this time or this time rather than having it totally wide open? But having some input. Right? Like, we want our kids to have some agency over that, especially as they get older, minor, middle, and high school.

Carrie Bonnett [00:19:50]: So I think part of that is really important. Like, what do they need? And then, you know, another thing that comes to mind is making sure they have a space where everything is is there that they need. Right? Like Mhmm. Like a a study space. You set it up very intentionally. Maybe it's a desk. Maybe it's at your kitchen counter, but there's a basket with pencils and a calculator and a whatever, the paper and something there. So setting up the workspace very intentionally so that they have what they need and it's not a back and forth.

Carrie Bonnett [00:20:22]: Like, oh, I forgot. I gotta go get my pencil.

Carrie Bonnett [00:20:24]: I gotta go get the paper. Oh, I gotta you know? And and, again, you need a to have a a a good conversation with your kid about what things do you need for your homework. In my house, typically, it's mostly just the iPad these days. Mhmm. But sometimes, when they were younger, and sometimes they need scratch paper to work on a math problem. And so just having your workspace set up very intentionally. Some students that I work with like to and can manage being in their room at a desk, but many cannot. There's too many distractions in the bedroom.

Carrie Bonnett [00:20:55]: So, also, figuring out where the best place is, with some input from your child can be great. My daughter likes to work at the kitchen counter. My son likes to work at the dining room table. They don't like to work in their in their room. Might be because we don't allow screens in their bedroom. Maybe that's why.

Penny Williams [00:21:13]: Yeah. And for my kid, it was literally, like, upside down on the bed is how he read because that was how he could get his brain to focus long enough Yeah. To do it, you know, because the ADHD was so strong when he was younger. Yeah. And so, like, I was you don't have to sit at a desk. You don't have to sit at a counter or a table. I don't care If you're doing the work, do it how you need to do it. And we had that homework station set up like you're talking about.

Penny Williams [00:21:41]: We had all the paper, the pencils that were already sharpened, all the things that you could use as procrastination. Yeah. We had in a caddy, actually, that was portable because he liked to do things in different places. So stuff he could take with him.

Carrie Bonnett [00:21:54]: Yes. And that's actually really great. That's great for brains too because sometimes my brain works well here, but not always. So to be able to carry it with you when you need, and you're like, I'm gonna try a different place because my brain kinda likes novelty. Like, what else could I do to make this more interesting? Mhmm. I'm sure you've you have talked to folks on your podcast before about setting short timers. You don't have to do all your homework right now. You don't even have to finish this particular math worksheet.

Carrie Bonnett [00:22:22]: But how long are you willing to work on this? Or I like to talk to my clients about, like, finding the sweet spot. Like, literally, how many minutes can your brain focus on something that's kinda boring or that you don't wanna do? And they come up with a a number. I don't care what the number is. You know? It could be 7 minutes. Great. Let's set a timer for 7 minutes and then get to work. Sometimes it's 20. Some of my kids say, I can do it for 20 minute.

Carrie Bonnett [00:22:47]: Great. Set it. And then truly give yourself permission to stop after those 7 or 12 or 15 or 20 minutes. But if your brain is into it and you wanna keep going, then do that. Set it again. Mhmm. So those short time those chunks of time because otherwise, it seems endless to a child, especially with a brain with ADHD or other learning differences.

Penny Williams [00:23:07]: Time blindness. Yeah. It can be really difficult. My son used to say, it's gonna take forever, and sometimes it would literally take 10 minutes.

Carrie Bonnett [00:23:14]: I know.

Penny Williams [00:23:15]: But he was so sad on the fact that it was gonna ruin his whole entire day. Yep. He was all keyed up and resistant. So, yeah, I'm like your daughter. I wanna just get things over with and check the box and move on. My son is the exact opposite. If he never did any homework, he didn't care what the consequence was. He was fine with that.

Penny Williams [00:23:33]: Right? Uh-huh. All the way through graduation, it was sort of a push and pull. Yeah. Because it's important to me, but it wasn't important to him. Right? And I think that when we break it down, we can help with that. When we make the time concrete, like, we don't know how long this assignment's going to take, but you're gonna do it in 10 minute bursts.

Carrie Bonnett [00:23:54]: Yep.

Penny Williams [00:23:54]: And you can take breaks. It doesn't feel so daunting anymore.

Carrie Bonnett [00:23:58]: Totally.

Penny Williams [00:23:58]: And I used to, like, cut up my my son's math worksheets, like, a whole page of math problems. There's no way he was ever willingly gonna dive into that. Yeah. But if I cut it up and I gave him 1 or 2 problems at a time Mhmm. It was doable. That was something that he felt like he could get started on. But when they're overwhelmed, that task initiation and that executive function can be really, really challenging.

Carrie Bonnett [00:24:24]: Yeah. That's a great strategy for teachers too is to cut it in pieces or just cover it up. Mhmm. Like, on a test, I recommend for teachers too. Like, just only do this one, and then come and show me that it's done. Okay. And then we cover it up the same and, likewise, you could do the cutting up of the worksheet too.

Penny Williams [00:24:40]: Or folding it. Yeah. For my kid, like, if I folded it, it was still there. Yeah. We really had to, like, cut it.

Carrie Bonnett [00:24:47]: Even see it.

Penny Williams [00:24:48]: Put it away. Can't even look at it. Right?

Carrie Bonnett [00:24:51]: Right.

Penny Williams [00:24:52]: Then that's fine. Like, it was a few extra minutes for me to do that, to cut it and then to tape it to a piece of paper to turn it in. Mhmm. Big deal. Like, it just made and it helped to protect our relationship.

Carrie Bonnett [00:25:07]: I was just gonna say that. Yeah.

Penny Williams [00:25:09]: Homework battles can be so hard on relationships. Mhmm. And I learned pretty early on that my relationship with my kid mattered more than homework did. It mattered more than grades did. Just that and his mental health. Yep. And so we worked around it. But a lot of the ways that we worked around it was by figuring out how to support those executive function challenges, because then it felt doable.

Penny Williams [00:25:31]: If we don't support those challenges, right, we can't expect them to feel like they can do things and get them done.

Carrie Bonnett [00:25:41]: Yeah. That brings us back to what you were saying earlier is that we do often expect kids to know how to do these things, but we don't always teach it. Right? So what you were doing for him, which is so valuable in his for his whole life from now until forever, is teaching him that there are ways to make it easier for his brain. Right? And here are some strategies to get started. Maybe he doesn't need the cutting of the worksheets anymore, but little baby steps, you know, chunking in the executive function world. We call this chunking. But, like, yeah, that's what you're doing. So in a task in his adulthood, he can do that similar type of thing.

Carrie Bonnett [00:26:18]: Yeah. Maybe it doesn't look exactly the same as the cutting, but, yeah, I I just think that we're teaching and scaffolding, all the things that we're doing for our kids. It's so important for life.

Penny Williams [00:26:29]: Yeah. They're gonna take those things into adulthood, and I always talk to parents about setting up strategies and supports that you can take yourself out of, and they will still work. So instead of me verbally prompting every step of a process, because I can never remove myself from that, How do we prompt where I don't have to be a part of it? And maybe to start out with, I do have to remind them to use the prompts. Right? Like, I still have to support it. Right. But someday, I can get out of the middle of that process, and they can use that successfully. Yeah. I think that's really important because we do just I think, automatically, instinctually, we jump in and try to, you know, keep things on task and on time line, and then that becomes our role.

Penny Williams [00:27:16]: And it's not helpful for them long term. No. But it's okay for now. Like, you just said something that really struck a chord, which was that, you know, maybe he doesn't need you to cut the paper anymore. Like, don't resist something because you think that it's going to keep your kid stuck there. So don't resist cutting the math worksheet because you think that forevermore, you're gonna have to cut the math worksheet, and why would you cut a teenager's math worksheet Right. Or something like that. Like, it's better to say, okay.

Penny Williams [00:27:46]: I'm doing this for now, but it's not forever.

Carrie Bonnett [00:27:49]: I mean, the thing that I think about in terms of adulting is that that's the that's the thing I think is so important about executive function. We've maybe even said it already in this episode, but that it's a life thing. It's not just school skills. Yeah. And it's not just, like, managing your Legos on the floor, and it's not just brushing your teeth. It is a life thing. And it's a quality of life thing. Like, we want our kids to grow into adults who have quality of life, who can manage what they need to manage, and be happy, successful people.

Carrie Bonnett [00:28:19]: Right?

Penny Williams [00:28:19]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. We want to create the greatest quality of life for our kids we can. Like, that's what most of us. That's the overarching goal as a parent, and so, yeah, we just need to help them in areas where they have some weakness. We all have some weakness, and it's totally doable.

Penny Williams [00:28:39]: And you've helped us to see that with a few strategies. Where can people find you online to learn more from you, to potentially work with you?

Carrie Bonnett [00:28:46]: Oh, yeah. Thanks. My website is just my name, so caribonnet.com. There's lots of free resources there. There are podcast episodes I've been on, and you can learn all about the the work that I do there. Just my name, Carrie Bonnett.

Penny Williams [00:28:59]: 2 n's, two t's. I will have it linked up Right. Yep, in the show notes for this episode. And they're at parentingadhdandautism.com/296 for episode 296. Thank you so much for being here, Carrie. Your energy is just lovely. I've had such a great conversation with you, and I can imagine how wonderful it is for kids and adults to work with you. So I really appreciate the work that you're doing.

Carrie Bonnett [00:29:27]: Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. It's great talking to you.

Penny Williams [00:29:30]: I will see everybody on the next episode. Take good care.

Penny Williams [00:29:34]: Thanks for joining me on the Beautifully Complex podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share, and don't forget to check out my online courses and parent coaching at parentingadhdandautism.com and at thebehaviorrevolution.com.