Nancy Gilette [00:00:01]: The truth is, learning happens every moment, every day, for the rest of your life. If we think that learning only happens during school hours in one way of instruction, we're missing everything.

Nancy Gilette [00:00:13]: Right?

Nancy Gilette [00:00:14]: And narrow, diverse brains demand a different way.

Penny Williams [00:00:20]: Welcome to Beautifully Complex, where we unpack what it really means to parent neurodivergent kids who with dignity and clarity. I'm Penny Williams, and I know firsthand how tough and transformative this journey can be. Let's dive in and discover how to raise regulated, resilient, beautifully complex kids together. Oh, and if you want more support, join our free community at Hub BeautifullyComplex Life.

Penny Williams [00:00:52]: Welcome back, everybody. I have here with me Nancy Gillette, who is an RDI consultant. And we're going to talk a little bit about how we can help with fostering the quality of life that we want for our neurodivergent kids and how to, I think, adopt that growth mindset so that we are always learning and growing and reminding ourselves that mistakes are part of that journey as well. Well, because that's so important, too. But, Nancy, I'm hoping you will start by letting everybody know who you are and what you do, and then we'll. We'll dive in.

Nancy Gilette [00:01:33]: Sure. Thanks for having me today. I'm so excited to have this conversation. As you mentioned, I'm an RDI consultant and I live here in Canada, and I've been supporting families for over two decades with autistic children and other neurodiversities and really a plethora of different diagnoses that some of these children have as part of their story. And throughout the years, you know, we were focused on children's behavior for so long of what wasn't working, what the obstacles were for the child. And, you know, I spent two decades of developing behavior plans to support these children to live, have a better experience. But it was really based on tasks to be completed versus really understanding that we need to focus on quality of life and also understanding what does quality of life actually mean. And so that's such a huge conversation.

Nancy Gilette [00:02:34]: But to summarize what I saw with parents is great to have behavior plans, great to have these plethoras of professionals involved. However, it can be really overwhelming for parents and families. Felt really unsupported because we were creating so many plans specifically for children, but really difficult to implement within the home environment because maybe some of the therapies or some of the plans were developed within a certain environment which didn't support the home environment or the community environment. Right. And so this was then impacting Quality of life for family, which of course would result in impacting the child. And so when I learned through the RDI process about understanding truly what quality of life means, that led me to a deeper path to actually understand learning. And, you know, because when we created these behavior plans, we thought that if we were able to manage a behavior, the learning would happen. Well, the truth is behavior is communication.

Penny Williams [00:03:39]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:03:39]: And so when we can understand communication and we support the individual with actually the support that is helpful, then we can create learning opportunities that support the big picture, which is quality of life.

Nancy Gilette [00:03:54]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:03:54]: And then families then understand that process and able to implement it within the home environment, which then helps the family feel more regulated and supported, which results in the child demonstrating being regulated and supported. And then behavior would decrease.

Penny Williams [00:04:10]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:04:11]: So it's about understanding from almost like top down. And you know, in a sense of knowing that we have to think of the big picture first.

Penny Williams [00:04:21]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:04:22]: Of what is this child wanting? What is the behavior telling us? And how can we actually support the learning to support what the child wants, not just what the behavior goals are.

Penny Williams [00:04:33]: Can you talk to us a little bit more about what quality of life is? Like, what are the components that we might be focusing on if we're focusing on quality of life?

Nancy Gilette [00:04:42]: Yeah. For me, almost crazy simple. Every time I've worked with families and children, all they want is to do well.

Penny Williams [00:04:53]: Yeah.

Nancy Gilette [00:04:54]: And feel good.

Nancy Gilette [00:04:56]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:04:57]: And so when we know that really that's the basis of everything is to feel good and to want to do well.

Nancy Gilette [00:05:03]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:05:04]: Then that can be completed. But it looks different for everybody. But if we can start from. Oh, you mean a child, an autistic child wants calm? Of course they want calm. Being in a heightened state does not feel good in the body. I have, you know, out of 20 years, working with hundreds of children, dealing with lots of, you know, intense behavior. It has not come from a place of the individual desire to have a challenging moment.

Penny Williams [00:05:32]: Yeah.

Nancy Gilette [00:05:32]: It's exhausting.

Penny Williams [00:05:33]: Yeah.

Nancy Gilette [00:05:34]: And it's exhausting for the individual, it's exhausting for the parent. And so it doesn't work. So when we want to look at quality of life, it's about how are we supporting someone to feel good?

Nancy Gilette [00:05:46]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:05:47]: Love that. And so when we look at that from a child's perspective, we're looking at play.

Nancy Gilette [00:05:51]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:05:52]: Kids want to play. That's it.

Nancy Gilette [00:05:54]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:05:54]: When we look at adolescence, we're looking at connection.

Nancy Gilette [00:05:58]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:05:58]: To feel good. When we're looking at adulthood, we want to have self advocacy skills. We want independence to support us feeling Good. So quality of life can look different for everybody, but it's coming from the same place of just feeling good and wanting to do well.

Nancy Gilette [00:06:17]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:06:17]: And so to me, again, that's the quality of life. That's how I live my life, is what do I do to support how I want to feel and how I want my future to be in a positive way that supports me and my family.

Nancy Gilette [00:06:32]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:06:32]: So it takes out the noise of thinking that we need to have a job, we need to have this, we need to have money, blah, blah, blah.

Nancy Gilette [00:06:38]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:06:39]: Because that list never ends. Yeah. But when we start, first of, oh, what feels good? Then that's what support. Neurodiversity is not looking at a task of accomplishment.

Nancy Gilette [00:06:49]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:06:50]: It's about a process of feeling better in my body.

Penny Williams [00:06:52]: Yeah.

Nancy Gilette [00:06:53]: It's an experience. And so when we come from that perspective, then that shifts how we respond.

Penny Williams [00:06:59]: We're creating environments that feel good for neurodivergent individuals. Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:07:05]: By using personal supports that support the brain to learn. So, you know, it's about being proactive versus reactive. So lots of times when I'm engaged with families, we're often responding to the crisis point.

Nancy Gilette [00:07:19]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:07:19]: When the behavior is happening, when people are being challenged with some of the behavior, my approach is, hey, we can do stuff before.

Nancy Gilette [00:07:29]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:07:30]: So if a child is bolting, for example.

Nancy Gilette [00:07:33]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:07:33]: And loping out of environments, my first question is, whoa. What is his behavior telling me?

Nancy Gilette [00:07:39]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:07:40]: What do I need to learn? Maybe the tasks that we're asking the child to do is beyond his capacity in that moment, and his fight or flight response is so heightened, and all he knows is to bolt. Right. So then when we do that, oh, then we do a different plan.

Nancy Gilette [00:07:58]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:07:58]: And it's really being intentional with the strategies that we utilize. So you can see my little visual behind me, and it says, don't be busy, be intentional. Life is so busy. We get it. There's always a million things to do. But when we can slow down to be not what do I need to do, but how do I want experience? Then you start implementing intentional strategies. So if you want your child, for example, to participate in math.

Nancy Gilette [00:08:26]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:08:27]: Well, oh, we need to think, how can this be engaging for the child?

Nancy Gilette [00:08:32]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:08:33]: Doing table work is not going to maybe support that child's learning process. Ah, but if I did baking, there's so much learning math concepts that you can learn in it, but it becomes meaningful and it's intentional because you're supporting the math concepts for the child to be successful while doing math.

Nancy Gilette [00:08:52]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:08:52]: So you can see how it really is shifting of what do we want to experience?

Nancy Gilette [00:09:00]: Right?

Penny Williams [00:09:00]: Yeah.

Penny Williams [00:09:01]: What do we want it to feel like for the child?

Nancy Gilette [00:09:03]: Absolutely. Because when we do that, then that's what supports learning. Right. We used to think learning is from this teaching of me explaining to you, which all us parents do.

Nancy Gilette [00:09:12]: Right?

Penny Williams [00:09:13]: Yeah.

Nancy Gilette [00:09:13]: But the truth is, doesn't help.

Nancy Gilette [00:09:16]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:09:17]: It's just falling on deaf ears. Why do I know that? Because the obstacles still happen. If I'm using different strategies to support my child's learning, then I see growth and I see consistency and I see utilizing effective communication to get needs met rather than behavior challenges.

Nancy Gilette [00:09:38]: Right.

Penny Williams [00:09:39]: And we know that our nervous system has to feel safe in the environment. Right. Because otherwise we're dysregulated. And then those instinctual behaviors like you were talking about, for example, bolting, happen.

Nancy Gilette [00:09:56]: Right.

Penny Williams [00:09:56]: So that experience, I think we also have to think about how can we help the child to feel safe. And if they're engaged, then they are feeling safe. Right. If they're enjoying what they're doing, they are feeling safe. And it sounds weird to say if you want this kid to do math, you have to focus on if they feel safe. Because I think we have a narrow idea of what that safety means.

Nancy Gilette [00:10:19]: Absolutely.

Penny Williams [00:10:19]: But really it's safety not just physically, but emotionally, psychologically, socially, like all of these elements. Right. And sometimes that looks different. That's engagement or movement or, you know, so many different things depending on that individual. But I always think about the fact that if you're seeing that challenging behavior, that the first umbrella meaning.

Nancy Gilette [00:10:40]: Right.

Penny Williams [00:10:41]: Because we're looking at as a signal and it's communicating. And that, like, overarching idea that it's communicating is that kid doesn't feel safe in some way, and so it's not doable.

Nancy Gilette [00:10:53]: Well, and, you know, I've had this conversation with many school teams throughout the years and also parents.

Nancy Gilette [00:10:58]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:10:58]: Because you're right, safety comes with thinking. That's only physical safety. And so what I use shift my language to dysregulated because the child is dysregulated, meaning the brain is not able to take any information in.

Nancy Gilette [00:11:13]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:11:14]: And so when the brain is dysregulated, like, we think of ourselves. Right. For some reason, we think children have different abilities than us as adults. And when you think about it, right. So if I have a dysregulated moment and they are all moments.

Nancy Gilette [00:11:28]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:11:29]: Of, you know, everything's not working, maybe I'm overstimulated, whatever the dynamic is, if I'm feeling very heightened. And then my partner comes in and tells me, just calm down, just be quiet. Well, my brain is so overloaded that I can't take any information in. So if that's when you think you're having teaching moments. No, that's when the behavior increases because it's too much. When we can support a child's brain to be regulated. Yes. That is environment.

Nancy Gilette [00:12:03]: However, all we actually really need to do is environmental modification with personal support. For example.

Nancy Gilette [00:12:10]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:12:10]: Having. Using headphones to reduce the auditory stimuli, maybe going into a space where there's calming colors, whatever. It's actually not that complex when we break it down, but it's allowing the opportunity and the understanding. Oh, if I see a child dysregulated, my first step is not going to. Oh, let's continue encouraging the learning. It's. Whoa. The learning is to regulate first.

Nancy Gilette [00:12:36]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:12:37]: How does the autism brain. What we've learned through an RDI perspective is emotional regulation is one of the obstacles.

Nancy Gilette [00:12:44]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:12:44]: So I have kiddos that maybe from an adult perspective have small problems, but then the child has big reactions or I often see the opposite.

Nancy Gilette [00:12:54]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:12:55]: Big reaction for what us as adults would consider small problems.

Nancy Gilette [00:12:59]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:12:59]: So when we see that spectrum that shows the experience of emotional regulation is a difficult thing to navigate. How do we know when a small thing requires a big emotion?

Nancy Gilette [00:13:11]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:13:12]: When we break down the mental processes that our brain has to do, it's actually quite crazy.

Nancy Gilette [00:13:17]: Right.

Penny Williams [00:13:18]: It's a lot.

Nancy Gilette [00:13:19]: So much.

Nancy Gilette [00:13:20]: Right.

Penny Williams [00:13:21]: We take it for granted.

Nancy Gilette [00:13:22]: And that's what we forget.

Nancy Gilette [00:13:24]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:13:24]: Is that this growth seeking mindset that is consistent for all neurodiverse brains is essential for us to live in the world by being able to understand our emotional regulation.

Nancy Gilette [00:13:37]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:13:37]: Is one of the aspects. There's five different areas that we look at through an RDI perspective to support learning.

Nancy Gilette [00:13:45]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:13:45]: And so when we understand emotional regulation that the goal is not to give information as the learning modality, it's about how do we support regulation is the learning. Because when a child is regulated, learning is abundant.

Nancy Gilette [00:14:01]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:14:02]: But it's about understanding that we need to do things differently.

Penny Williams [00:14:07]: Yeah.

Penny Williams [00:14:07]: Sometimes I call it availability to learn. Like we need physiological, biological availability to learn. And it's not really a concept that we've talked about in education for all these years. And finally we're starting to. We're starting to understand that kids get dysregulated and what that looks like in the classroom and what we can do to help. You know, the goal used to be butts and seats like your kid has to be at school, they have to be sitting there, they have to look like they're paying attention, right? If they're dysregulated, they're not learning anything, which is what you're talking about. They're not learning anything. They can't.

Nancy Gilette [00:14:44]: No.

Nancy Gilette [00:14:44]: And so this is really a shift in what is education, right? And so for me, education is learning. Education is about knowing to do better, to improve whatever experience we want to have. The truth is learning happens every moment, every day for the rest of your life. If we think that learning only happens during school hours, in one way of instruction, we're missing everything, right? And neurodiverse brains demand a different way, right? I was reading something somewhere and it's talking about the neurodiversity, how it's really shifting a lot of this world because we have to. Parents know that they're struggling and parents want children to do well, they're just not sure of how to do it. So we have to start thinking about it differently. What is the intention of our education, right? And so for me, it's about supporting the learning process. And I remind parents that's what it is for all kiddos.

Nancy Gilette [00:15:46]: We just have to do it in a different way.

Penny Williams [00:15:49]: And so really we're looking at like experience first, right? Instead of what do I need to teach them, how do they need to show me how they learned it? We need to think about preparing the experience and the environment so that they can feel safe and have the opportunity to learn, to be available to learn.

Nancy Gilette [00:16:07]: Absolutely. If we want to develop a growth seeking mindset, which is really a lifelong skill, how do we respond to this ever changing world in a way that's regulated, we have to focus on experience based learning. And the neurodiverse brain again thrives on that. And so when we can put learning in a meaningful way, right, that supports the person's interests, that supports their own regulation that they have, whoever the teacher is, and also using effective strategies, a child world can change from explosive to stressed. The never enough endless medical appointments, right? All these intensity outcomes to a place of thriving parents feeling confident, understanding what personal supports make this child thrive and actually create a world that is so good, right? Like I've worked with a family and every time I talk to her, she talks about the, the growth her son has done. And from a parent perspective, that's everything that we want for our children, right? And also a piece that I also do too is, you know, understanding the value of parents because we are there from morning, noon, and night, from the moment they entered this world to the time they leave this world, us parents are essential. And we have to start really honoring our role and knowing that when we can communicate in a way that supports the brain to learn, not only will you see a shift for your child, you will see a shift within your environment and your relationships. And it's just like this, a beautiful ripple effect.

Penny Williams [00:18:04]: Can you talk about the role of connection? Because I know that in rdi, connection is super important. But also just in regulation, for any human, connection is key. How do we one, foster connection with our kids? And then how do we sort of harness that to help us to foster regulation, to help kids be available to learn all of these things? Right. I think a lot of it starts with connection. So can you, can you tell us how to navigate that a little bit?

Nancy Gilette [00:18:35]: Sure. So again, like, you know, working with families for upteenth amount of years, I've, you know, been giving information of what they need to do. How do you implement behavior strategies, all those things. And so I did that with my career, but then I became a parent, and then I realized the complexity of exhaustion, right? The adult demands, our own regulation, interrupted sleep. You know, the list goes on for a parent. And then when we have a child who thinks differently, who needs different support, this is when I understood the value of relationship knowing. We as parents have to really slow down of supporting how we want our children to influence how our children can succeed.

Nancy Gilette [00:19:25]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:19:25]: So when we first start recognizing connection is everything is because we as parents know we have that feeling, something's missing. And so when we start noticing that feeling, I want people to trust that, you know, we are often again, when we're raising children with different diagnoses, we have involvement with professionals, and everybody has an opinion about everything and what we should do and how we should do it. And go talk to this person and go read this. Right? It's an abundance of overwhelming information. So a lot of parents forget about that initial feeling of parent and child connection. And that is everything, because we feel it. In my opinion, you know, it's knowing that's what your children feel. We know about the autistic children and neurodiversities.

Nancy Gilette [00:20:14]: They're heightened. They experience the world differently. So that feeling is essential. We need to be a match.

Nancy Gilette [00:20:19]: Right?

Nancy Gilette [00:20:20]: And so when I'm talking to parents about this, it's about understanding all all those little inklings that you've had throughout the years. Those are the connections, those are the sparks that matter. And we have to start bringing those back to support your child. Then they ask, okay, great, how do you do it? And I just give them really simple strategies. One is visual referencing, right? Lots of autistic brains, like, like I've said, they're overwhelmed by the busyness of the environment, so it's really difficult to get their attention, right? And so parents work really hard to get their attention. And what I'm encouraging is we need to slow it down, break it up. All you need to do is say, if you're offering your child a drink, all you need to do is put it out, offer it, pause, and wait your child to reference you. And that does not mean eye contact, right? Doesn't matter.

Nancy Gilette [00:21:17]: Just noticing, hey, we're sharing space. And then when you do that, I would say 99% of the time, parents know when their children look at them, when they actually see them. It's a feeling. And so when you feel that feeling, know that's connection, right? We forget that a lot of people think connection means we have to do something elaborate, that we have to plan this sensory experience or this outing. And what I want to say is, no, it's subtle shifts that reconnect to people and having shared experience. So when your child is referencing you, you've just quieted the noise for them, right? Of just, oh, you're here with me. And it's not an expectation, it's not a demand. It's just, hey, here it is.

Nancy Gilette [00:22:04]: And then once your child references you, give the water. That's it, right? So again, it's about knowing the simple things matter most. So then parents are like, okay, So I felt that. I noticed that I'm slowing down. He's referencing beautiful. Then we start developing the skill call of CO regulation. And CO regulation is actually engagement shared. 50, 50.

Nancy Gilette [00:22:29]: So that when we're involved with a person, we're having a very meaningful role, right? So, for example, when I go into a Starbucks, right, for an order of coffee, my role is the customer. Their role is the barista, and they make the coffee for me, right? So we're 50, 50 within our role, right? How do I know it's authentic? If the barista wasn't present, then I would be ordering coffee to nobody, right? The engagement isn't authentic. If I wasn't there with the barista shoes order, would she take, right? So that's how you know it's authentic. Because if the person wasn't there, the engagement wouldn't happen. What parents tend to do is we do 90% of the engagement and 10% up for the Child.

Nancy Gilette [00:23:18]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:23:18]: And so again, fill in the space.

Nancy Gilette [00:23:21]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:23:21]: So we have to slow it down and bring it back. So we go to what can the child competently take of 50% and what can the adult take of 50%? And so then we're actually doing meaningful engagement.

Nancy Gilette [00:23:39]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:23:39]: And it's so simple and subtle.

Nancy Gilette [00:23:42]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:23:42]: But we have to, as parents say we need some support. Or what parents really appreciate is the reminder to slow down. Support, connection, neurodiverse kids. It's not always about getting the best or needing this. You know, of course we want that, but it's about understanding what true connection and authentic engagement is. So, you know, when I support parents to do that, it seems manageable. And then they start seeing change because they're getting back that feeling. Because it is a feeling.

Nancy Gilette [00:24:16]: It's not a task to accomplish.

Nancy Gilette [00:24:18]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:24:19]: Parenthood is an experience that only when you talk to other parents, you get it.

Nancy Gilette [00:24:23]: Right.

Penny Williams [00:24:24]: Yeah.

Nancy Gilette [00:24:24]: Not something that, like, I worked with kids for 18 years before I had my children.

Nancy Gilette [00:24:30]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:24:30]: You would think I would have a pretty strong background in understanding.

Nancy Gilette [00:24:34]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:24:34]: But when then, when I had my children, it took a whole other meaning because it's an experience. And so when I can remind parents of what connection really matters, and we can do it in these small little increment shifts, parents feel the connection differently, the children start to experience differently, and we start doing effective guiding and teaching through intentional strategies.

Penny Williams [00:24:58]: Yeah.

Penny Williams [00:24:58]: I took two big things away from what you're saying. One was that we don't need to be speaking in order to have connection, that it's about the engagement, but that doesn't require a conversation. And also that relationship equals influence. When we show up and we connect, we have more influence with our kids. Right. We are able to guide them better. We're able to have that them come to us more like in adolescence, this becomes bigger.

Nancy Gilette [00:25:34]: Right.

Penny Williams [00:25:35]: If we're creating that relationship before that, then we have kids who are comfortable in connecting and want to talk to us or want to share experiences or emotions or whatever it is. If you set up enough of a pattern of CO regulation too, I think you'll find that your kids come to you seeking that CO regulation.

Nancy Gilette [00:25:56]: Well, and again, you know, it's about meaningful engagement.

Nancy Gilette [00:25:59]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:26:00]: And when I think about influence, absolutely. We have this thought that we can control people. But of course, you know, there's no. We can't control anything in this world.

Penny Williams [00:26:10]: Yeah.

Nancy Gilette [00:26:10]: It's not accurate.

Nancy Gilette [00:26:11]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:26:12]: And especially neurodiverse kids, we tried, tried, you know, through aba, often we were focused on compliance. Right. And what we know to be true. We can't control anyone, but we can support influence.

Nancy Gilette [00:26:26]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:26:26]: And again, influence that is positive.

Nancy Gilette [00:26:29]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:26:30]: It's not influence for a negative outcome. Because neurodiversity doesn't want negative outcomes. They just want to feel good.

Penny Williams [00:26:35]: Yeah.

Nancy Gilette [00:26:36]: Full stop.

Penny Williams [00:26:36]: We all do.

Nancy Gilette [00:26:37]: Right, Exactly. So when we can create influence, well, how do we influence our children? Oh, right. By being authentic engagement to being regulated. So I also support parents of understanding our own regulation patterns because we have to model the strategies. Again, Neurodiverse learns from modeling experience based. It's not let me tell you what to do and you just have to do it. No, that's not teaching. That's retaining information.

Nancy Gilette [00:27:09]: Right. True knowledge is being able to take the information and implement it within the environment that it suits a lot of our kiddos. Right. 20 years ago we were talking about autism. Kids can't generalize.

Nancy Gilette [00:27:22]: No.

Nancy Gilette [00:27:22]: We didn't teach the process. We were just teaching the request or the demand within that environment.

Nancy Gilette [00:27:29]: Right.

Penny Williams [00:27:30]: Compliance.

Penny Williams [00:27:31]: Yeah.

Penny Williams [00:27:31]: It was all compliance based.

Nancy Gilette [00:27:32]: Exactly. Right.

Penny Williams [00:27:33]: I'm so glad we're moving away from that.

Nancy Gilette [00:27:36]: Yes.

Nancy Gilette [00:27:36]: Right.

Penny Williams [00:27:37]: We shouldn't be thinking about compliance at all. There's so many other ways to influence learning and growing and childhood and all of these things and our own parenting experience without just seeking compliance for compliance sake.

Nancy Gilette [00:27:53]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:27:54]: Yeah. And again, what is the big picture?

Nancy Gilette [00:27:56]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:27:57]: The reason why we want compliance is because it's easier for us parents to manage. Let's be real. That's the only reason why.

Nancy Gilette [00:28:04]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:28:04]: In a class. We want compliance because it's difficult to teach a classroom of 25 students. A hundred percent. But now we're in a group. Exactly. And I get it. Because that's what we need within a group of people. However, we're in a different place now in the world, in society is compliance does not work.

Nancy Gilette [00:28:25]: Why? Because it does not support really what the human wants, which is to feel good, to have curiosity, to explore preferred interests.

Nancy Gilette [00:28:34]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:28:34]: All those things. So when we're not meeting that need for kiddos, what are we going to see? More challenging behavior.

Nancy Gilette [00:28:41]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:28:42]: So it's about understanding, ah, how does learning actually happen? It's an experience.

Nancy Gilette [00:28:47]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:28:48]: We have to get away from thinking it's this hierarchical process of listen to me, I have words of wisdom.

Nancy Gilette [00:28:55]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:28:56]: And follow what I say.

Penny Williams [00:28:57]: Yeah.

Nancy Gilette [00:28:58]: You know, parenting Neurodiverse, they will be the first one to tell you a no. Yeah.

Nancy Gilette [00:29:03]: Right.

Penny Williams [00:29:04]: We're gonna do it differently and that's okay. And it's even good.

Nancy Gilette [00:29:07]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:29:08]: When we think about the world differently. Possibilities are endless.

Nancy Gilette [00:29:12]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:29:13]: And so people can thrive.

Nancy Gilette [00:29:16]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:29:16]: And we have this world right now that's really not well, we have anxiety through the roof. We have depression rates, highest suicide rates.

Nancy Gilette [00:29:26]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:29:26]: People just in fear. Well, when we operating from that place, we're only responding in crisis and we're not able to take a step back to do something different. Because you can and you will, but you have to.

Penny Williams [00:29:39]: First, we all don't feel safe. It comes back to that we're all dysregulated and we don't feel safe. We're feeling, I think, more of a lack of control over ourselves and what happens to us than ever. And again, it comes back to connection, engagement, experience, trying to be part of the world instead of being so dysregulated.

Nancy Gilette [00:30:03]: That you can't engage well and again to who the person is. This is not, you know, thinking that everybody has to have a full time job for a quality of life. No, people have to make an income. But it can look differently for everybody, right? That income, their currency could be time.

Nancy Gilette [00:30:25]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:30:25]: So maybe they have time to house sit at somebody else's home for a while or be a landskeeper or whatever. Right. It can look so many different ways. But we've been taught that we think that there's only a way to have a quality of life by someone paying us money in a certain way. And the truth is no, because quality of life is how can we live the. In a way that works for us. I know loads of wonderful adults who are happy and they live with their. A family member.

Nancy Gilette [00:30:56]: Great.

Nancy Gilette [00:30:57]: That's not wrong, Right. It's about what works and you know, and also knowing if family can support then that's amazing because that puts less demands on a system that doesn't work.

Nancy Gilette [00:31:11]: Right.

Nancy Gilette [00:31:12]: And so when we again, think big, think big.

Penny Williams [00:31:15]: It's been such an inspirational conversation. Will you tell everybody where they can find you online to connect with you, learn more from you?

Nancy Gilette [00:31:24]: Sure. So first of all, if people are interested in wanting to hear more of what I have to say or what my perspective is, as you can find me on Facebook, Autism, a different perspective. And that's where I share everything I've learned through 25 years implementing autistic strategies in a way that supports quality of life. And also I'm offering a 12 week course called the Autism Shift for parents. And that's where I'm going to give direct guidance to parents of how can we implement some of these subtle but most effective strategies within a home environment for their child. To thrive. And so you can check that [email protected] and that's where more information will be. And if there's any other specific questions, please email me.

Nancy Gilette [00:32:14]: Contact me I do things very differently, but I've seen the progress. I've seen families thrive. I've seen children completely shift and succeed in their world, no matter where they are in the world, no matter what their abilities are in the moment. But knowing that growth is possible for anyone.

Penny Williams [00:32:33]: And I'll link everything up in the show notes too so everybody can connect with you easily. And you can find those show [email protected] 321 for episode 321. It's been a pleasure, Nancy. So inspirational. These shifts are so, so monumentally important and I'm glad that you are reinforcing these ideas to accept differences and really focus on experience and what success looks like like for our kids. And I appreciate it so much.

Nancy Gilette [00:33:06]: Thank you.

Penny Williams [00:33:07]: I will see everybody on the next episode. Take good care. I see you.

Penny Williams [00:33:13]: You're doing hard and meaningful work and you don't have to do it alone. If you found this episode helpful, share it with someone who needs it and leave a quick review so others can find this support too. When you're ready for next steps, the Regulator A Kids Project is here with the tools, coaching and community to help you raise a more regulated, resilient child. Get more info@regulated kids.com.