Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:00:03]: Look for those tiny moments, those tiny shifts of change because that's what's gonna keep you going. Like, maybe it is not as frequent. Maybe it is not as long. Maybe something worked for a moment. That is hope. That is a sign that there is some movement. Even if it's teeny, teeny, tiny, hold on to that and keep going.

Penny Williams [00:00:30]: Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches. I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author, and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started. Welcome back, everybody, to Beautifully Complex. I am so excited to have Janine Halloran here with me to talk about coping skills. And I think we're gonna talk about coping skills for our kids, but maybe also for us because how we show up matters a great deal to the behavior that we see in our kids. So, Janine, will you start by letting everybody know who you are and what you do, and then we'll jump in.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:01:20]: Sure. So I am a licensed mental health counselor. I've been working in the field for over twenty years, which is wild to say that, but that's true. I've been working with kids and teens and families and helping kids and teens and the families try to figure out what strategies will work for them, trying to make life just go a little bit smoother at home. So I'm a therapist by training, and I actually still do see kids privately. In fact, I have, like, a new client I'm seeing this afternoon. I see clients throughout the week. But the other thing that I do is I run coping skills for kids.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:01:54]: So I wrote the coping skills for kids workbook, the coping skills for teens workbook, because I couldn't really find those workbooks when I was, you know, starting my work and wanting to try and find strategies that are gonna work for the different kids that I saw all the time. And I just was wanting, like, a just an, like, just different ideas. Like, I just needed a lot of ideas because different kids need different things and respond differently. So I wanted to have a lot of different tools in my toolkit, but I couldn't find it. So I wrote it, with the encouragement of my husband. And it's been really amazing to see and continue to learn what strategies work for what type of kid, and everybody has their own sort of unique constellation of their own strategies that works for them. So it's my passion and fun for me to help people figure out what strategies are gonna work.

Penny Williams [00:02:43]: Yeah. That's so much fun. And you've created such a great resource for parents. You know, I get asked all the time, well, what should we do for this or that when so much of it is tied to the nervous system. But as you said, everybody's different. You know, something that might really soothe me might escalate my kid and vice versa. And so we really have to be sort of detectives, right, and and figuring out for each kid. But having this well of information and ideas to pull from is so super helpful when you just don't know, you know, when it's not your thing to know these things.

Penny Williams [00:03:22]: Yeah. So I appreciate that so much. Can we start with kind of defining what you mean when you talk about coping skills and then why maybe they're so super important for neurodivergent kids and families because maybe they experience the world more intensely and differently than a neurotypical kid.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:03:44]: Yeah. Absolutely. So the way I define coping skills is it is strategies you use to deal with big feelings, to deal with overwhelming situations, to deal with challenges in, you know, maybe overthinking things. And you can sort of think about them in, like, healthy versus unhealthy strategies. Like, what are strategies gonna that are gonna be helpful and healthy? So the thing that I always talk about is I wanna make sure that you stay safe when you're using a strategy. I wanna make sure other people stay safe, and I wanna make sure property is completely cool and safe as well. So there's a a wealth of strategies that you can use as long as you are doing things that are gonna keep you safe, keep other people safe, and keep property from not being damaged. And that leaves a lot of room for it's a lot of wiggle room.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:04:32]: Like, you can do movement strategies. You can use your senses to help you cope. You can use distraction to help you cope. Play. You can use deep breathing or grounding. You can talk through and label your emotions. But I think when it comes to neurodivergent kids, a lot of times, there's a lot of big feelings there. Right? Like, there's really, really big feelings.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:04:54]: And so to be able to figure out what are gonna be those things that are gonna help me walk through that feeling in a way that is not going to impact people around me in a really super negative way. Like, if I'm having a really big anger, punching a hole in the wall is not a good strategy. Like, it's not healthy. It's not safe. So what are the things that I can do that can be different that it still honor the fact that I'm angry? Anger is not a bad thing. Anger is just, it's a signal. And you can channel that anger into something more positive. You can channel that into change.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:05:31]: Right? But if you are having that big feeling, you've gotta get it out in a safe and healthy way. So, really, that's what I love about using strategies is being able to help kids walk through that emotion and walk through the feeling. It's okay to have that feeling. It's okay to have any feeling. It is okay. It's what you do when you have that feeling that matters.

Penny Williams [00:05:50]: Mhmm. And so many of our neurodivergent kids are avoidant. They don't wanna feel the feeling. They don't wanna be uncomfortable. They're gonna do anything and everything not to sit in it. Right? And so having those conversations, building that skill also of being able to be with the emotion and feel maybe not okay, but that it is gonna be okay.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:06:14]: Yeah. Well, it's to sit with uncomfortableness is really hard to sit Yeah. Like sadness, to sit with worry, to sit with grief. It's it's hard. It's hard to do that and to have that conversation about, like, just sit with it for a sec. Like, even if it's just for a minute, and we'll get better at sitting with it. Right? And it's okay. Mhmm.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:06:34]: That's part of being human, is having these feelings and emotions, and that's what makes us human.

Penny Williams [00:06:39]: Yeah. Absolutely. We've had with my own kid who is 22, but he's my kid, so I still call him my kid. Not that either of my young adult kids like that, but that's what we do because I'm mom. And he's been struggling with frustration, and it just sort of exploding out of him before he's able to think about it. Right? And his therapist is working with him on the stop practice from CBT or DBT and, you know, really trying to help him because he doesn't like that. Right? He so often, these behaviors that our kids have these big emotions, they're not pleasant for them either. They're not enjoying it either.

Penny Williams [00:07:22]: And so he really does wanna work on it, but it affects everybody in the house when suddenly there's, like, these huge loud noises because he'll be on the computer and get frustrated and bang really hard, and then he hurts himself. And then he's like, ugh. Why did that happen? Why didn't I do something different? Right? So we're working on it. But it was so funny. The other day, he sends me this video from YouTube of this guy with this giant return button. It's like a pillow. It's a squishy pad, big enter button. And every time the guy gets frustrated, he's banging on the enter button.

Penny Williams [00:07:53]: Right? And my kid says, we need to find one of these for me. I think this could help. Because, like, you have to honor that your nervous system is saying, I need to move. I need to expel some energy. Right? But we have to find healthier ways to do it. And, you know, he was trying to do that, which I was like, that's pretty smart. Right? Like, that's, I think, a starting point. Right? Because so often, in the moment, they can't use the coping strategy anyway if they're already super far down the hill.

Penny Williams [00:08:23]: Right?

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:08:24]: Oh my gosh. No. And this is the thing that is really tricky about teaching coping skills. You would think, like, okay. So now you know a coping skill. Right? And you know when you're supposed to use it. Like, you get frustrated, you're playing on your video game and somebody does something or somebody is attacking and they're like, they're not playing fair. Mhmm.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:08:40]: I have a teenage boy myself. So, like Yep.

Penny Williams [00:08:43]: I know. Oh, the fairness.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:08:44]: The fairness. It's not fair. They are they're cheating. It's just And they're like anyway. But what happens is, like, that's not the teachable moment, really. Mhmm. It's too far gone. It's too late.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:08:56]: The tricky part with coping skills is you have to work on it before, and you have to be able to have the conversation about, I'm noticing that you're getting really frustrated when you're playing this video game. I've actually had this conversation with my son. First of all, is it fun for you? Is if this is still fun for you, continue to do it. But if it is no longer fun, like, you're playing video games because it's supposed to be fun. If this is fun, great. If this is frustrating for you, perhaps we need to take a break and play something else that is other things that are fun for you. Like Sudoku is fun for you. Chess is fun for you.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:09:29]: Legos are fun for you. Like, what are some other things you can do to take a break away from the screen? And the other thing is that, like, moving away from the computer, but also, like, using that movement because there if you're full of that frustration and anger, there's a lot of energy in your body, so you wanna get it out. Yeah. So my son actually goes and kicks a soccer ball. He, like, goes to the garage and he, like, and he just kicks it and kicks it and kicks it. And he figured that out on his own after we'd had some conversations about you're getting really frustrated. I'm noticing your face is getting red. Your hands are clenched.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:10:02]: And I will go through and, like, note all the things that are happening in his body. And then I will will and I say, is that what is going on for you? And then he'll be like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it and and, you know, it's not I make it sound pretty and easy and beautiful like it was in that moment. No. It's not. It's like sometimes it's all messy.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:10:19]: Like, he doesn't wanna hear me, like, in that moment. Right? Yep. So we come back to it later. And so I'll say, you know, maybe the next day, maybe, like, on a walk, in the car, over a nice snack, like, doing something, like, a third thing is always really helpful rather than just, like, talking directly face to face. Yeah. Yeah. It's intense. But to talk about, like, okay, so that didn't go well yesterday.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:10:42]: Like, what happened? What are the things that worked? What didn't work? What made you really frustrated? What are we gonna do the next time this happens? And it just revisiting that plan over and over and over again to figure out what are the strategies that are gonna work, what worked a little bit, what worked longer, what didn't work at all, and modifying as time goes on.

Penny Williams [00:11:03]: Mhmm. But what can we do in that moment? Because I get this question so often. My kid knows strategies. We talk about all these strategies. We talk about them outside of the moment. But still in the moment, they can't use them. They can't call on them. They don't want me to remind them, whatever it is, right, in the thick of it.

Penny Williams [00:11:24]: What do we do? So for me, it's all about me, actually, at that moment. Because it's

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:11:31]: my issue that I am wanting to fix what's going on for them. But it's their feelings. Right? Like, they're they're having them. Maybe they're not doing things that I would approve of or think are a great way to manage that moment. Right? But I also have to manage myself because I wanna set the tone in my house. I wanna set the temperature. I don't wanna escalate as he's escalating. Like, that's just not going to lead to anything productive.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:11:56]: So it really comes back to me staying calm in the moment. Like, this is a moment. We will get through this. And in terms of talking to a child who's having those moments, I keep it really simple, keep my language very short, and I repeat the same thing. I'm here when you're ready or let me know when you're ready to talk. I try and share my calm. I wanna be as calm as possible. And sometimes I will walk, like, when my kids were little, I would stay closer, but when they are now that they're older, I can walk away a little bit more because I know that things aren't gonna get so destroyed.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:12:28]: Yeah. Like, I Right. Like, when they were little, like, we would set up, like, we would make sure that rooms were in a place where things weren't destroyed, like, taking all the things out that could hurt a wall or could damage property. Right? So we would just it would was very, like, stripped down. The other thing that I really like to do is use visuals as a reminder. So instead of me saying it, they might have the visuals on their wall. I've done that with kids that I work with. So I will set up a calm space in their room where they have their visuals of things that they can do.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:13:00]: They have their little tool kit of things that are ready to go. And so in those moments, instead of me talking through it, I will point. Or we will practice before those moments to be like, okay. When you are having a moment, let's walk into your room. Where do you look? You look over there. Yeah. Let's practice a few of those right now. So it's really that practice and planning, and it takes a long time.

Penny Williams [00:13:25]: Mhmm.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:13:25]: It just takes repetition in order for those skills to sort of start to stick and internally for them to be able to do it. Yeah. And it's just it's what it is. It takes time. We all take time to learn things, and they're learning how to manage their feelings. Their feelings are big, and that is okay.

Penny Williams [00:13:43]: Yeah. Yeah. It's difficult. You know? They just don't have the skills yet. They don't have the, you know, twenty five, thirty, forty years of practice that we have. Yep. And yet we sort of expect that they're able to manage things the way that we do. And that's the goal, but we have to give it the appropriate amount of time.

Penny Williams [00:14:03]: Yeah. And I always tell parents in coaching, like, when you're sure that there's no way this is working, keep going. You didn't get there yet. Like, we always wanna give up too early, and we really have to stick with it because it will make a difference in the long run. You know, we're trying to create habits. We're trying to create a habit of, I feel explosive, but I'm gonna stop, and I'm gonna think about it. Like, how hard is that? Right? Yeah. It's so difficult.

Penny Williams [00:14:33]: So we have to give them time to be able to get there, I think, for sure.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:14:37]: Yeah. I think about it as like a marathon, not a sprint. Mhmm. Right? We wanna give them a strategy and want them to fly with it and make sure that they can use it every single time. And that is just not how it works. And I also tell parents, do not give up. Do not give up. Keep going.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:14:50]: Keep going. And look for those tiny moments, those tiny shifts of change Mhmm. Because that's what's gonna keep you going. Like, maybe it is not as frequent. Maybe it is not as long. Maybe something worked for a moment. That is hope. That is a sign that there is some movement.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:15:09]: Even if it's teeny, teeny tiny, hold on to that Yes. And keep going.

Penny Williams [00:15:15]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. That was one of the big pivotal moments for me in my parenting was starting to recognize and celebrate progress instead of still worrying about the fact that we hadn't gotten there yet.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:15:26]: Yes.

Penny Williams [00:15:26]: And, oh my gosh, what does this mean for my kid ten, fifteen, twenty years from now? Because I am definitely a future caster and worry about all the things. And so many of those things that I worried about when my kids were little never happened. Right? Like, at this age, none of that is a problem. Right? And so we just have to give them time, but it's so hard. Like, we just want them to be happy. Right? It's just so hard to see them struggle, I think. And so, you know, we can validate that experience, but also say, hey. There's hope.

Penny Williams [00:16:04]: Keep going.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:16:05]: Yep. Exactly. Because there is hope. It's really hard as a parent to watch when things are not going well. It is so hard to sit and just be like, and I'm here again. And you do, especially, like, if you're dealing with anxiety yourself, and you're dealing with all sorts of things, you go big picture. It's real easy to be like, and they're gonna live in my basement until they're 30, and I don't know what to do. Mhmm.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:16:26]: Mhmm. Mhmm.

Penny Williams [00:16:28]: We can't have that.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:16:29]: Right.

Penny Williams [00:16:30]: Oh my god. What do we need to do now while they're five Right. To make sure they don't live in my basement in twenty five years? It's so real life, though. Like, I've had so many of those thoughts and worries. Can we talk a little bit about kids who are super resistant? Because I think a lot of our kids are, especially that avoidance of discomfort. Mhmm. I think a lot of times that also makes them not wanna talk about what they would do if that happened. They don't wanna talk about coping skills for those times, or they don't wanna debrief later.

Penny Williams [00:17:10]: Mike had never wanted to talk about something even days after because he didn't wanna go back he didn't wanna have that feeling again. Right? And talking about it, he was gonna have that feeling again at least a little bit. So what do we do in those scenarios to teach the skills when they aren't really open to even having conversations about it?

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:17:29]: So sometimes what I will do is I will actually ask them about other kids. I will talk with them about, like, what other teens do, what other kids do, what have you noticed with other people, if they have some close friends. Like, if Susie was dealing with this, if Eloise was challenged with this, if, you know, Steve was having a hard time with this, what would you say to them? What would you do? What would what do you think would be helpful for your friend in that moment? So it's vulnerable to talk about yourself. It's hard to talk about yourself. Mhmm.

Penny Williams [00:17:57]: But if

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:17:58]: you put it on, like, what have you noticed with other kids? They're more than happy to talk about it, usually. Right. Like, they'll talk about other kids till the cows come home. Like, what did you see in school today? Well, this kid, you won't believe this. So it's easier sometimes to talk about other kids and use that as a way to start to get back to the conversation about them.

Penny Williams [00:18:17]: Mhmm.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:18:17]: But starting with, like, just laying the groundwork of, like, let's just have a conversation about strategies that people use when they get angry when it comes to friends. I will also use media. So I will use characters on TV. I will use characters in books. Like, especially for little kids, Pigeon of don't let the pigeon drive the bus has a lot of big feelings, like, really big. Yeah. Yeah. We talk about Pigeon's big feelings all the time.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:18:42]: And that's fun because he's real ridiculous and over the top. Right? But then it's, like, a great way to enter into the conversation about, like, okay. He has really big feelings. Is this realistic? Like, why is a pigeon trying to drive the bus? Like, what are we doing? What would you do? Love a pigeon. What's got on your bus and try to drive it? But then the other thing sometimes I will do, especially with my older kids, is I will encourage writing instead. Mhmm. So instead of talking about it face to face, I will encourage, like, a journal back and forth. So, like, you put it under their pillow, you write to them, they write back to you, Like, if that is something that is a medium that feels good for them, and it's easier to sort of start a conversation in writing rather than talking.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:19:27]: And I always like to use, whenever I'm talking with kids, like, even as a therapist, I almost never talk directly to a kid without having something else to do. Mhmm. So I'm always playing a game. We're drawing. We are I'm not making eye contact. I almost never make eye contact, especially when we're having hard conversations. I'm like, here's your drawing. Here's our gel pens.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:19:48]: Let's get started. And as we're drawing and I'm weaving in the conversations around, like, okay. I'm noticing like, your mom told me that there were some really big feelings, blah blah blah about the spelling test. Let's talk about that. And if it gets to be too much, I will step back. We wanna talk about it all all the time. We wanna talk through the whole thing, and we wanna solve it. And sometimes that's not gonna be as helpful.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:20:20]: Conversation. They are not open. We'll revisit. You know where they live. You can come back to it. You can circle back. So I like to do that. And the other thing is that I gather a team around me because I know that I can't do it all.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:20:33]: Even as a therapist, I am not a therapist when I talk to my kids usually. Like, I will put my therapist hat on sometimes, but if I need them to have more deeper conversations with somebody else about their feelings, about their strategies, I will get somebody else on the team. I will enlist my sister. I will enlist another therapist. I will enlist occupational therapy. Like, whatever I need to do in order to help bring the strategies together, if it's not for me, that's okay. I just need strategies in there in some way from another trusted adult. If it's the coach, if it's somebody from church, like, whoever it is, I'm gathering a team to help support me.

Penny Williams [00:21:15]: Yeah. That's so important. The job of parenting a kid who's neurodivergent is often isolating anyway. Yeah. So we need more people on our team in in that regard too. But, you know, if your kid is not open to talking to you, find someone they're open to talking to because, generally, there will be someone. Yep. You know, the parent might be the least likely person that they really wanna talk to, especially at different ages.

Penny Williams [00:21:43]: I wanna pivot a little bit and talk about, like, setting up our environment at home to foster more coping skills and growth in managing emotions. Do you have some ideas about routines, about tools, about relationship, you know, building that connection? What do we need to know there?

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:22:07]: So there are three sort of things that I think about when it comes to setting up a home where you can really implement coping skills. The first is just connection.

Penny Williams [00:22:17]: Mhmm.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:22:17]: And that is you want to connect with your kids. Sometimes I think we get so caught up in grades and fixing things and doing stuff that we actually kind of forget. Like, we wanna still have a relationship with them. So we wanna play with them Yeah. Like, with no sort of, like, ulterior motives. Like, I just wanna play Legos with you. I wanna play a video game with you. Let's read a book together.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:22:38]: Let's watch a YouTuber together. Let's watch a movie together. Let's make something together. So, really, when we have those moments of connection that are just pure moments of connection and this is not to say that it's not like, I have two teenagers. It's real. Sometimes it's, like, a little cranky. Okay? They're cranky. Like but, to have those moments where we can actually relate to one another, when you have that base of connection, when you have that base of an actual, like, genuine, warm relationship, when things go wrong, it's easier to then have a a different kind of conversation.

Penny Williams [00:23:15]: %.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:23:16]: There's a trust. There's a respect there because we've played those games, because we've had those conversations, because we've just had fun together and been silly and done nonsense. Like, that's actually my favorite part about being a parent is to have those moments of connection, to play, to chat about nonsense. Like, tell me what people are doing at lunch. Like, what is happening? Why are people throwing food? I don't understand. Like, tell me about the Minecraft movie that you both saw. Why are people throwing popcorn? What is it happening? So, the connection is the first one. The second one is really about structure, and that really comes down to, you know, creating an environment that is predictable.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:24:04]: You wanna create an environment where you sort of have some predictability about what is going to happen. Now I know days look different. After school activities can throw things off, but there is something really helpful even when you're doing something like routines for bedtime. Like, we take a bath, we read books, and then we go to bed. Right? Like, it's the the bee routine. That's what I would call it when my kids were younger. There's a routine for, like, maybe after dinner. Like, we all take a point in cleaning up different parts of kitchen, and then we sit down and watch one episode of a show together, and then we disperse.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:24:41]: Right? Like, just having some sort of routines and expectations. On Saturdays, we do this. On Sundays, we do this. This is not to say that every single time that's what's going to happen. And that's where you can build in a little bit of resilience and flexibility training

Penny Williams [00:24:54]: Yeah.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:24:54]: Because that is it's a routine is lovely. A routine always doesn't happen, and that is life. And so we just that's a way to just build in that. And then the other thing I like to do is actually having a space or a place for those strategies for coping skills to live. So when my children were little, I set up a space in our home, in our living room, where that was the coping corner. Like, we had posters up where we were working on feelings, and the strategies that they really like to use were ready to go in there. Now that they're older, they sort of do that on their own in their rooms, so they have, like, their own, like, little strategies. But having a toolkit ready to go with things that you know will work that are, like, their top three to five strategies, like, what are these things? Visuals can be really helpful, but to really be planful about it, if that makes sense.

Penny Williams [00:25:51]: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's so important. It's not something that I need to do when my kids were younger. But now, you know, just last month in the regulate kids project, I had a whole thing on how to build your coping corner, calm corner, whatever you wanna call it. Let your kid name it. Let them own it. Right? Give them all the tools that they want, that they feel like they connect with and are gonna use.

Penny Williams [00:26:15]: And I think that's another good point too is, like, you can suggest all the strategies in the world. If your kid doesn't connect with it or doesn't want to do it, it is never going to work. Like, let them lead in that way. Like, we are all like, oh, just breathe. Just breathe. And they're like, ah. You know? And it's because in that moment, at least, that doesn't make sense for them or it isn't doable at all. So really leaning into what does our kid want? Are they open to experimenting by trying this thing, or are they not if they're not? You know, I wrote down the word pressure a little bit ago as we were talking because a lot of what you're saying is pulling back the pressure.

Penny Williams [00:26:57]: Yes.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:26:57]: You

Penny Williams [00:26:57]: know? If you're doing something else with your kid coloring or whatever, that's less pressure than this eye to eye conversation. Right? If you're just building connection instead of going, this was not okay. We need to fix this, and we're gonna have a conversation. Right? You're just lifting that pressure that often makes our kids shut down anyway. If they feel a lot of pressure, they can they're not learning anything. They can't. Right? So that pressure is is difficult. It was a difficult lesson for me as a parent because I'm a fixer.

Penny Williams [00:27:28]: Yes. You know? I I just wanna get it done, and I wanna fix it. And I want everybody to feel hunky dory all the time, and I had to learn. Yes. That's not the way all the time.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:27:38]: I know. The problem solving piece, it's really hard to turn that off. It's really hard because especially when you're like, well, if you just did this, it would be better. Right? Right. Except they're their own, like, person. So, like, what works for them is not what works necessarily for me. Like, my two kids cope in very different ways than I do. Like, my daughter copes in some in some ways very similarly to me, but my son is a super extrovert.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:28:02]: Like, he'd be happy outside all day long playing with his friends. I'm like, that sounds like my nightmare. Yeah. Me too. Like, he loves it. He love and I have to honor that because that's him as a person. Like, okay. You really like that.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:28:16]: You wanna be hanging out with people. That gives you energy. That is a like, you need to move to cope. I get it. Like, that is what is for you. It is not necessarily my way. Like, I would not ever pick to kick a soccer ball, like, never ever in my life, ever. But I would walk and I would dance.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:28:34]: Right? Honoring who they are makes it easier for them to actually do it. Because if it's coming from them, if they're like, I really like Sudoku. I really like coloring. I really like crochet. And that's something that's gonna help me. Then it's gonna be more likely that they use it because it's something that they already like.

Penny Williams [00:28:52]: Mhmm. For sure. Before we close, let's talk for a second about parent coping skills, adult coping skills, because, you know, our nervous systems get triggered too where all human beings have this autonomic nervous system that is our sort of safety alarm to keep us safe and protected. And when our kids are yelling at us, our body is going to react. Yes. And we have to learn how to do it differently and teach ourselves. How do we do that? Like, I know that's a five week conversation, but what are the basics? Where can we start?

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:29:31]: It's so funny that you asked me that because I am working actually on a on a book for adults. So I've written a book, I've written a teen book, and now I'm writing the adult book because this is such a big issue that comes up every single time I speak or talk about coping skills for kids or teens. Without fail, an adult will be like, well, I am really struggling because I don't have my own strategies, or the adults in my building are not coping well, and they are taking their anger out on the kids. Like, there's so much for us as the adults where we need to build our own strategies, and we never learned them. Like, I was luckily Mhmm. Lucky enough to be in therapy as a teenager. Like, I don't know how that happened. God bless my mom.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:30:14]: But, like, I and it was really helpful. It was super duper helpful.

Penny Williams [00:30:18]: I can imagine.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:30:18]: Because I really learned a lot of strategies that I still actually use with my clients to this day that were really helpful, but not everybody had that opportunity. Right? So to be able to first recognize, like, okay. I need help with working on these strategies. It's okay. Give yourself grace. It is okay. Be okay with being an imperfect human because we all are. We all make mistakes.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:30:41]: We all do not do things a % perfectly. The second thing is to think about, like, really, what are things that bring you joy, that make you happy, that help you relax? Like, not what people are telling you, not what, like, Instagram Reels is pushing for you. Like, what makes you happy? What brings you joy? What makes you laugh? What helps your brain get a break? And to really build those things into your schedule. So that's really, I think, the hardest part for families and for for parents in particular those things that are going to be those, like, mental wellness breaks that we need to really fill our cups again. But then also in those moments when our kids are having a hard time, we need, like, nine one one skills. Right? We need, like, our emergency. Like, I'm gonna take a breath. I'm gonna put a cold compress on the back of my neck.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:31:38]: I'm gonna take a drink of water. I'm gonna go outside. Like, what are those things that we can do in the moment to help us stay regulated? So it's like there's we have to have the in the moment skills just like our kids, and we have to have those, like, okay. What are the things that are gonna help replenish me so I can get up and do this again tomorrow?

Penny Williams [00:31:55]: Mhmm. It's not just about that even. It's also about coregulation, offering coregulation. Right? Like and so much of what we've talked about here, you know, when I'm talking to parents about regulation activities and exercises, I'm like, bonus points if you do it with them. Yes. You should be doing it with them because you're offering coregulation. You know? Those mirror neurons are getting activated, but, also, you're working on your own nervous system with them. Like, these are human being skills.

Penny Williams [00:32:27]: And I just think, like, if we taught kids, all kids, about emotional intelligence and emotional regulation, the world would be a different place. Like, you know, when we were kids, nobody talked about that. Nobody thought about it. Our parents didn't know unless maybe they were a therapist. They didn't know about this stuff either, and they you know, it's just like this gap for a lot of generations that I'm hoping now we can start filling because we'll have happier humans. We'll have humans that interact better with each other, that empathize with each other. Right? All the things that I'm hoping that we keep building.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:33:05]: Yes. And the thing about coregulation is that for those resistant kids, even if they don't do it with you, this is an opportunity for them to see, okay, I am noticing that my adult takes deep breaths when they are having a hard

Penny Williams [00:33:19]: It's not just me.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:33:20]: I am noticing my adult has big feelings about certain things, and they are doing things. I will actually narrate out loud what I am doing. I will be like, I am really frustrated right now, so I'm gonna take a five minute walk around the block. I will be right back. I'm really irritated. I'm gonna take a drink of water, and I'm just gonna take myself to time out for five minutes, and I'll be back. Like Yeah. I will literally narrate it out loud for them.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:33:45]: So even if they're not doing it with me, I'm sharing what I am doing. They see it in real life. Like, okay, mom gets frustrated, mom gets angry. What do I do? What does she do when she does this? You know, even if they don't do it with me, when they were younger, I would have them do it with me. But even if they don't do it with me, it's still sharing what I am doing to keep myself calm.

Penny Williams [00:34:06]: Mhmm. Yep. That modeling is so important. Yeah. Yeah. So much more we can talk about, but we are out of time. So let everybody know where they can find you online, where they can find the books, how they can learn more from you.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:34:19]: Sure. So if you go to copingskillsforkids.com, there's a bunch of free resources on there all about, like, anxiety, deep breathing, stress, anger. And then, if they wanna get the books, they can go to store.copingskillsforkids.com, or they're also available on Amazon. Nice.

Penny Williams [00:34:37]: And I will link all of that up in the show notes for everybody, which are at parentingADHD and autism.com/309 for episode 309. And I really thank you, Janine. I always have the best conversations with you. I love to talk about emotional regulation and coping skills with you. It's always fun, and it should be fun. Like, this is how we get our kids engaged. Yeah. And I just appreciate you and all the work that you're doing for kids and families, and thank you for sharing some of that with us.

Janine Halloran, MA, LMHC [00:35:07]: Oh, you're welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so delighted to actually be connected with you because it's, you know, talking to somebody else who, like, get who's in the world, like, we like, I wanna talk about coping skills all the time. Like, I know I'm a Yeah. Yeah. Weird nerd about that, but that's like

Penny Williams [00:35:22]: Shared passion. It's fun to have conversation with people who have a shared passion for sure. I'll see everybody in the next episode. Take good care. Thanks for joining me on the Beautifully Complex podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share. And don't forget to check out my online courses and parent coaching at parentingADHD and autism.com and at thebehaviorrevolution.com.