Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:00:03]: Everybody had this meeting on how to act in middle school. I didn't go to the meeting. I don't know how to act in middle school, and it's not fair that everybody else is playing by a different playbook than me. It feels like everyone was playing chess, and I was playing checkers, which was ironic because I was playing chess in middle school. Right? So to me, I can't make the world more fair, but I can make those unspoken things spoken so at least we're leveling the playing field.

Penny Williams [00:00:29]: Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches. I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author, and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:00:52]: Welcome back to Beautifully Complex, everybody. I am really excited to have doctor Matt Zakreski back with us for a second time on the podcast to talk about his new book, which is neurodiversity playbook. I'm so excited about this book because we need to be more neuroaffirming. We need for the world to understand the neurodivergent kids and adults that are around every one of us. Right? There's so many neurodivergent people. But start, doctor Matt, by introducing yourself and let everybody know who you are and what you do.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:01:30]: So I'm doctor Matt Zakreski. Everybody calls me Doctor Matt. I'm a clinical psychologist and professional speaker and podcast host and, most importantly, published author, which never gets never gets tiring to say. That's for sure. Nope. And this book has sort of been a long time gestating, but I called Molly Isaacson McLeod over at, Gift Unlimited last year actually, around this time last year. And I said, Molly, I'm doing all these state gifted conferences in the fall. And I never have a book to sell.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:02:03]: I never have anything to sell. Like, how I should have a thing. It's like, what would I need to do to have a book ready to be available to these things? Then she goes like, well, you need to have it done by June 23. I'm like, great. Give me five months to do something impossible, and I'll do it. Because that's the problem with the, you know, the gifted ADHD brain. It's just like, if you give me no time frame, I'll never do it. Right.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:02:26]: Right? I'm just like, I have to. Like, you know, so I worked at it, and I had my I transcribed a bunch of my talks so I would have, like, a lot of sort of grist for the mill, and I build all that stuff in. And then and then I looked at just the transcriptions of the talks. I'm like, there's no through line. There's no narrative. Right? So I sort of went back to formula, and I realized that as a neurodivergent person, I've always struggled with feeling out of sync to the rest of the world. Right? Like, how come everybody knows what to do, and I don't know what to do? Did they have some meeting? Was there an email I was left off of? And, you know, it felt like they had the code, and I didn't have the code. So that became the through line metaphor of the book.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:03:15]: It's like, let's crack this code. Right? And it sort of winds to this idea that I don't because, you know, when I was posting about what the my book was online, this woman jumped into my comments and she's like,

Penny Williams [00:03:28]: I don't wanna see another book that encourages neurodivergent people to mask and sell out who they are. You're writing another book.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:03:36]: And it's doing that. And this is actually the the conclusion chapter of the book. I was like, am I doing that? I don't know. Maybe? I don't think so. But then I realized that I think instead of asking neurodivergent people to pretend to be a neurotypical, I'm pushing the idea of code switching. Right? You know, I feel very comfortable with you, Penny. Right? So, like, I can be a little like, my quirkier, more, you know, neurospicy self in this space.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:04:04]: Right.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:04:05]: But if I'm meeting with, like, a superintendent and they're like, we need you to come and do several thousand dollars worth of PD in our district, I'm gonna be like, yes. Look how neurotypical I am. Right. I am wearing a tie. I am very formal. I'm not fidgeting at all. Small talk about sports team. Good.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:04:23]: Right? But then I get my car up. I got that. I got that.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:04:26]: Right.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:04:27]: I can't let it all out. So right. You've got it like, code switching is a social skill. It's a survival skill.

Penny Williams [00:04:32]: Mhmm.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:04:33]: Right? And I think it speaks to sort of the practical nature of interpersonal communication, but I also think it's very pragmatic, which I think speaks to a lot of neurodivergent people. Mhmm. You don't have to do this all the time, but here's how to do it when you need it. And the feedback we've gotten has been really amazing. People were like, that is exactly what I needed. And, like, you gave me a lot of concrete steps to take, a lot of personal reflection. Like, you made it accessible to do this thing, and I'm pretty proud of that.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:05:05]: Awesome. Yeah. And it strikes me. You know, I had this conversation with somebody recently, and I don't remember who. It might have been one of my kids, but we all change our forward facing persona in different environments and under different expectations. So even neurotypical people, you know, I was a real estate broker for a long time before I was able to do this work full time, and when I would meet a new client, you know, I had this this real estate broker hat. Right? And that's how I show up. And then if I'm at home with a friend, then I'm much more casual and maybe tell personal stories, right, where I might not do that in another time.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:05:45]: So I know that masking is a very real issue, but there is some, as you're saying, there is some of this sort of code switching. That's what you're calling it. Right? Code switching that we all do. And so I really appreciate that you are outlining that in the book for people so that they understand that everybody is expected to not change how do we say this? Not change who they are, how they appear, but show up in a way that fits the environment, the situation. Does that make sense?

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:06:22]: I think that's the right way to do it. And, like, neurodivergent people tend to be what we call in psychology very context independent. Mhmm. Like, you are your the way you are all the time. And in many ways, that's awesome, and it's a great authenticity piece. But there are times where being context dependent is actually a really good thing. Mhmm. You know, as the example I often use with my clients, right, is like so if you're dating, you know, if you're dating somebody and, like, you get some alone time with your significant other, I expect you to be acting a very particular way.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:06:56]: Right? But if that person's parents come home and you have to make the small talk with the parents, I expect you to adapt your behavior to this new environment. Right? And with teens, that that that always tracks. Right? It's like, ah, yes. The parents are home. Time to I yes. I'm a very, you know, upstanding young citizen. Take your coat, sir. Right? And so we all do it to an extent, but it's like, let's be intentional about it.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:07:25]: Mhmm. But if you're doing so in a way that's aligned with your neurotype and you're understanding why someone might need to do this in different situations, I think it makes it feel more authentic. It feels more intentional because I think neurodivergent people crave authenticity. Right? And so much of the challenge with masking and code switching in general is, like, I don't wanna be inauthentic. Mhmm. Right? If I'm somebody who doesn't cry at funerals, I shouldn't have to cry at a funeral to show that I'm sad. And that's absolutely true.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:07:57]: Yeah.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:07:57]: But let's not overcorrect and show up in jeans and a t shirt, you know, and, like, listening to loud, like, you know, Carly xCX at the funeral. Like, that is also not appropriate. Right? Mhmm. So there's that middle ground, and, you know, I'm fond of saying in the therapy space. Like, we always seek third door solutions. If door one is I don't change at all, door two is I change completely. The third door is what's enough change to achieve compromise? And that's where we're that's what we're trying to do.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:08:28]: So how do we get intentional Yeah. About helping neurodivergent kids be authentic, but also have success in a neurotypical world?

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:08:43]: You know, one of the things that I say to people often is that 80% of the world is neurotypical. The world is built for them and by them. Mhmm. Right? So I can't write a book for neurotypical people on how to treat neurodivergent people better because they're not gonna read it. You know? Right. As we build up this movement, as we create that critical mass, we're having more conversations, more neurodivergent affirming conversations. And I think we're starting to see it happen in more places. But I've gotta lead with skill set for this community as we rise in number and awareness and power, frankly.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:09:22]: Mhmm. You know? So I think naming the rules of the game help us play better because, you know, we know that neurodivergent people tend to have very strong sense of justice. Right?

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:09:33]: Oh, yes.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:09:33]: It's unfair. I won't do it.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:09:36]: Yes.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:09:37]: And a lot of that unfairness was, you know, to go back to the original idea. It's like, everybody had this meeting on how to act in middle school. I didn't go to the meeting. I don't know how to act in middle school, and it's not fair that everybody else is playing by a different playbook than me. It feels like everyone was playing chess, and I was playing checkers, which was ironic because I was playing chess in middle school. Right? So Right. So to me, I can't make the world more fair, but I can make those unspoken things spoken so at least we're leveling the playing field.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:10:06]: Mhmm.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:10:07]: And then I think people feel like, okay. I may not like the game, but at least now I know the rules of the game, and I will do my best to play it.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:10:16]: Yeah. And how do we help our kids define those rules? Because our instinct as a neurotypical parent is to try to help our kid fit. Right? Because that feels like the solution when they don't fit because they're in a system that isn't built for them or a world that isn't built for them. But that's not the solution. That's not a good answer. That's masking. Right? And so how do we help them set up the rules of the game that are neuroaffirming and are true to their authentic selves, but also help them to achieve success? How do we figure out even, like, kid by kid where that is? Where do we start?

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:11:03]: So I think it's that intersection between what are the spaces that you feel best in and how much access can we give you to those spaces and people? So one of the examples I talk about in the book was, you know, in high school, I played, you know, varsity soccer, and I did musical theater. So I was like I lived in two worlds. I was I was, you know, the prototypical Finn Hudson from Glee, except Finn can't dance and I can dance and Finn can sing, but I couldn't sing. So, yeah, it's fine. Close. And I would be on the bus to away games. I'd have my Discman because it was the nineties, and I would be listening to Broadway mixes and living in terror that if any of the other guys on the soccer team found out about that, they would have rode my butt forever. They would have never let me hear the end of it.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:11:52]: Yeah. So the context independent neurodivergent person to me is like, that's right. I'll play my Jesus Christ Superstar as loud as I damn well please. But that's that's authentic, but it's also dangerous. And I don't wanna sit there and make a kid pretend to love, you know, Biggie Smalls if they don't love Biggie Smalls. Right? So the middle ground is, like, how do you do the best version of you in that space? And then how do I give you spaces that are more affirming? Because then I could show up at theater rehearsal and be like, oh my god, guys. I just heard the best remix of x y z song, and that was affirmed and valued, and I felt comfortable with those people. So what the research shows is if you give a neurodivergent person a space where they feel comfortable, they can be as close to their authentic self as possible, then the knowledge of that space, it's like playing tag and knowing there's base.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:12:48]: Right? Like, it changes how you feel about the circumstance. It allows you regulate your emotions, especially your anxiety, if you know there is a safe place you can return to.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:12:57]: Right.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:12:58]: And to to echo what you said before, Penny, sometimes we are the safe space for our kids. Like, we're the only safe space they have, and that will carry them forward for a while, but we need to give them community spaces, whether it's gifted kid club or, you know, esports or CTY, one of the gifted summer camps. Maybe it's finding a school that works with neurodivergent kids. Right? One of my kids that I I work with, you know, we've just enrolled him in Fusion Academy, and it's just the best possible fit for his neurotype. Right? He just feels more affirmed in that space.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:13:36]: It's amazing.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:13:36]: You know, people will often say to me as a therapist, like, well, should my kids see you more for therapy? And I'm like, the best things we can do for these kids is actually an environmental intervention way more so than just doing more therapy. Right? Because we want the spaces that our kids find ourselves in to fill their cups. Right, not drain them.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:13:59]: Yeah.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:13:59]: And the more of those spaces we find, the happier, more regulated kids you're gonna have.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:14:03]: Mhmm. Right. So if they don't find their community, then they're gonna need a lot of therapy for a long time. Right? But finding their community means that they're with their people, and they feel good about who they are, and they are just having a better time in the world. Right? And what keeps coming to mind for me as you're talking is a sense of felt safety, Like, you were describing on the bus with the other guys on your soccer team, you're listening to musicals, and you didn't feel socially safe for them to find out that you were listening to musicals. Right? And so you were taking an action that made you feel safer in that environment. And so often, I think we forget about focusing on that felt safety, that social safety, that mental safety, emotional safety. And, you know, even when we are trying to push for fitting, we're actually making them feel less safe in those ways.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:15:08]: Right?

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:15:09]: Absolutely. And, like, one of the things that we need to also it's one of the hardest things for us to manage as parents is that, like, we can overcorrect on safety as well. Right? Like, if our kids always feel safe, then, actually, we are not inoculating them to the world because the world is challenging at best and unsafe at worst. Right?

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:15:32]: Yeah.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:15:33]: You know, like, I was about the line from Finding Nemo where, you know, Dory says tomorrow and, like, well, if nothing ever happens to him, nothing's ever gonna happen to him. And that is the I mean, that is the absolute truth. Right? I'm not saying those bus rides were pleasant, but it did teach me some important lessons. Mhmm. Right? And I think parceling out the right amount of challenge to our kids becomes increasingly our job as parents. Like, it's like Yeah. Safety matters, but safety plus growth is where is where we're headed. Right?

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:16:07]: Yes.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:16:07]: Because, yeah, like, you could lock your kid in the basement and make them homeschool and never see anybody. You turn off the Internet. Like, yeah. They they will be very safe. They will also not be a functional adult. Right? And increasingly, if you talk to educators, we're seeing kids who are teens, but not functionally teens. Right? Teens who don't know how to tie their shoes.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:16:27]: Kids who don't know how to send an email. You know? Kids who burst out crying in the hallway at school because they're gonna be one minute late to class because they've never developed the resiliency skills to manage those moments. Right?

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:16:40]: Right.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:16:41]: Life is unpleasant. We can't run from that. We wanna find places that we can feel pleasant and give us the tools to manage the unpleasantness when it shows up.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:16:51]: Yeah. And thank you so much for saying we can overcorrect with safety or protection because I I was definitely that parent for a very long time until I learned that I was overcorrecting and that if kids don't have to go through hard things, they don't learn how to go through hard things, and they tend to try to avoid them when you do that. So it's super important not to ever correct. I love that challenge and safety and also growth. Like, those three things need to be in balance. Can we talk a little bit about how to help our kids find their community? Because I talk to so many parents who struggle with this. Because when they go to school, they're put in a room randomly with a set of kids, they tend to see those kids more than other kids, and so they haven't really found their people in an organic way. So how do we help them make those connections?

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:17:55]: Oh, boy. That's the question. Right? It's a big one. Right? And we are here for some big questions. So what I tell parents all the time is lead with interests. Right? Like, one of the mistakes we make as parents is that we assume our kids will like the same things that we like, or they will engage in this in those things the same way that we did. You know? Like, I grew up playing a lot of recreational sports in my town. Like, I played, you know, rec basketball, rec baseball, rec soccer, you know, rec hockey.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:18:27]: And here in the town that I live in now, the rec sports situation is a lot different than in my town. It's a little bit more competitive, and it's harder to break into. And, like, frankly, it's not the right fit for my kids right now. May they get into it someday? Maybe. I don't know. I'd like them to. Right? But the I'm not raising a little Matt. I'm raising my kid who has some of me in it, but also some of my wife in a very different situation, in a very different town, in a very different time in human history.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:18:59]: If your kid tells you, I wanna build websites, well, then let's find them a coding club.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:19:05]: You know, if your kid wants to live action role play or if they're gonna be a LARPer, then we find LARPing. Right? You know, behavior is communication. When kids show us what they like, that is a window into meeting them and to getting to know their soul. Right? And that's how we're going to really connect with them and find those communities. And it's amazing how often parents will be like, my kid really loves Minecraft, so I want them to be a boy scout. It's like, I don't necessarily see how those things connect. Right? You know? And now it's important to not just blindly do whatever our kids tell us to. But, you know, if our kids are telling us something, what's the version of that we can find for them? Because that's often where we're gonna see the best growth.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:19:53]: I have this conversation around gaming so often with parents too. My all my kid wants to do is game, be online, be on a computer. Okay. Well, how do we expand on that?

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:20:02]: Yeah.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:20:03]: If that's their interest, there's a million ways to expand on that. There's coding. There's art. There's UX design. Right? Designing a game, designing the experience of the game. There's electronics classes. There's, like, there's a million ways that you could expand on that and make the time more practical or whatever we're trying to do with the gaming thing with our kids. But they're saying this is where I feel comfortable.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:20:34]: This is where I feel competent. This is where I feel confident. So how do we, like, bring that into other parts of life? Right? Is that what you're saying?

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:20:43]: Absolutely. You know? And you said two of my favorite words, competent and confident. Right? I mean.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:20:50]: It's everything.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:20:51]: You know, if your kid got invited to a pool party and they didn't know how to swim, it would be hard for them to feel confident at the pool party because they don't have the competence to swim. Mhmm. So we can either build our kids' confidence or we can build our their competence, but it's cool that one will influence the other. Mhmm. And, you know, social skills are a skill set. They are a thing you can become more competent at. So, you know, the more we lean into that and we put kids into spaces, they're gonna build those skills, resiliency, communication, frustration, tolerance, grit, all those great soft skills, then they're gonna be able to navigate more situations. And you look back at your kid and, like, my kid's handling thing today that they could not have handled three years ago, and that's our job.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:21:40]: That's what we are trying to get our kids to do. Right?

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:21:43]: Yeah.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:21:44]: You know, my kids are really strong swimmers. You know, probably this summer at the pool, we won't have to have a little string that's like, here's the deep end, here's the shallow end. Right? But Yep. We brought them along intentionally to this place. Right? We're not just saying, ah, you're older now. You can probably swim. Right?

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:22:01]: Right.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:22:01]: And so much of this echoes the neurodivergent journey because we do develop asynchronously. Right? So a lot of the, you know, the expectations for a kid's age, well, a 10 year old should be able to do this. Mhmm. Well, this 10 year old is doing particle physics in their spare time, but is still struggling to tie their shoes and can't catch a ball in gym class. They're not a typical 10 year old. So we need to meet that 10 year old at all the spaces of their life to give them the best interventions to move forward.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:22:32]: Mhmm. Yeah. And sometimes it's not trying to bring them up to age level in different skills or whatever. Sometimes they need more challenge beyond their age group. You know, a lot of our neurodivergent kids are twice exceptional, and so they need challenge of thinking and things like that. But then they can also need special ed support and learning support. That can happen in the same kid, and it does very often. What else do we need to know about the neurodiversity playbook?

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:23:07]: You know, I think the thing that really drives me up a wall when I read these books, and it's the same thing that drives me up a wall when I go to conferences and professional develop things, is that if you give me Uninformed practice. It's like, well, just do this. Well, why should I do this? What's the research behind it? What's the theory? Tell me why it works Or you get all theory and no suggestions teachers tell me all the time like, listen I've I've seen all the theory all the presentations. Just tell me something that works. Give me a thing I can do with my kids. Right? So Yeah. You know, what we tried to do with the playbook and the the reason I decided to call it the playbook was that it's filled with practical things that you can do at home, you can do in your community, you can do with your family. These are things like tangible skills that you can practice and bring into the world.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:23:57]: Like, I have a whole section on there on how to do small talk. Right? Not just, hey. Just get more comfortable with it. Right? Right. You know, it's like so much of the advice here is, like, have you tried not being anxious? Like, well, boy, golly. Gee. If that was an option, I wouldn't need my job. So I think what we're doing here is, you know, like, here's what small talk is.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:24:18]: Here's how to do it effectively, and here's how to move on with your life if it doesn't work out. You know? Because I have been described several times in my professional roles as aggressively pragmatic. And this is where being aggressively pragmatic works for me because I'm like, hey, kids. As long as it works and I can give you a justification for doing it, let's do it. Mhmm. And it there's been really powerful about being able to say to somebody, yeah. I got you. I can help you do this thing.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:24:46]: Yeah. I think there's something powerful too about saying if you never quite get it, it's okay. Yeah. Right? Like, we need that, and I think neurodivergent or anybody who's has differences needs that, that acceptance of who they are. Let's give them the code to navigate with success, but also the, I'm not gonna say permission, the ability to be who they are. Right? That's so important. Can you tell everybody, doctor Matt, where they can find you online, where they can find the book?

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:25:22]: Yeah. So I have two primary roles. Right? So my therapy practice is the neurodiversity collective. And we just hired some new people. We're seeing more patients. We're very happy about that. Awesome. So I I would say it's like, if you think you need me for you as a person, then that's the neurodiversity collective.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:25:43]: We will find you a therapist that works for you. If you think what I'm talking about in terms of neurodiversity practice and skill set and culture building makes sense for your organization Then it's doctor. Matzokreski dot com Because I can do all my song and dance for your organization. It's just it's a little bit different than doing it for therapy. Yeah. And then the book is available on Amazon, and it's also available at giftedunlimitedpress.com. If you punch it in there, you'll see it. You can order it through the website.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:26:14]: And if you happen to come across me in one of my many travels, whether I'm speaking at a conference or at one of the various airports I tend to live in these days, I usually have a couple copies on me, and I can sell them to you directly. So oh, and we're working on the audiobook too. That's very exciting. Nice. Because we know our neurodivergent folks love to listen to an audiobook at one and a half times speed. Mhmm. Right? You know? My voice always sounds a little bit like Alvin from the Chipmunks. Like, oh my gosh.

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:26:44]: But, yeah, I mean, it's I mean, like, honestly, when it came out, I said, I just want someone who isn't my dad to buy this book, because I knew my dad was gonna buy like 20 copies which he did of course, but like Having people contact you On social media or send you an email and say I listen to your podcast and I need to buy your book How do I do that? I'm like Venmo me this amount of money, and I will mail you a book. And then that happens. Like, I'm on a first name basis with everybody in my post office now. They're like, oh, you guys have more bookstores than that. I'm like, I am. It's weird. But I really believe we've created something good here, and people have been so enthusiastic about it. It's been a privilege to share in that journey, and, you know, I'm gonna ride that way for as long as I can, I suppose?

Matt Zakreski, Psy.D. [00:27:30]: Mhmm. You're doing such great work, and I appreciate it so much. You're changing lives and helping neurodivergent folks, and it's really important stuff. I'm gonna link everything you just said up in the show notes for folks. So it'll be easy access at parentingADHDandautism.com/301 for episode 301, and I will see everybody on the next episode. Take good care.

Penny Williams [00:27:57]: Thanks for joining me on the Beautifully Complex podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share. And don't forget to check out my online courses and parent coaching at parentingADHDandautism.com and at thebehaviorrevolution.com.