Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:00:03]: Kids with executive function challenges, well, they can be mislabeled as, oh, this kid's lazy. They're not motivated. They're not disciplined. They just don't try hard enough. They just need to work harder. They just need to apply themselves. They just need to care more about school. If they they just don't care, if they would only care, everything would be okay.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:00:20]: What the misunderstanding is about is that this has to do with skill sets.

Penny Williams [00:00:30]: Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast where I share insights and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches. I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author, and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started.

Penny Williams [00:00:52]: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Beautifully Complex. I am really very excited to be introducing you all to Seth Perler. I cannot believe that I haven't had Seth on the podcast yet. I don't know how we've managed that, but you're gonna learn all about executive functioning, which is so crucially important, I think, as a parent of a kid with ADHD or autism or learning challenges. So, Seth, will you just start by letting everybody know who you are and what you do, then we'll dive into it.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:01:23]: Yeah. Hey, Penny. Good to see you. Penny's awesome. And hello, parents and teachers, therapists, anybody else who's out there helping kids. My name is Seth Perler. I have a site called sethperler.com. But what I do, my life is dedicated really to serving kids who struggle, Mhmm.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:01:39]: Kids who struggle in school. And I was teach for 12 years of a master's in gifted education and special education, taught gifted ed, special ed, typical ed, this kind of school, that kind of school. I had a big teaching career and, just always have had a heart for kids who are struggling because that is that was me. I was a kid who struggled in school tremendously. I didn't know about ADHD or executive function or any of these things. I just thought of myself as a lazy failure, and,

Penny Williams [00:02:08]: it

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:02:08]: was pretty destructive in my life. And I started working with kids by accident, fell in love with it, and my life's been dedicated to working with kids since, I don't know what, 1998 or so, a long time. So now that's what I do. I I really help kids who have executive function challenges regardless of whether or not there's a diagnosis and regardless of whether or not those of you listening have heard of executive function because most people haven't. So part of my mission is to get the term executive function into the vernacular because it is so important. Mhmm. So that's why I have a summit called executive functionsummit.com, where we have a bunch of, amazing humans teaching about how to support kids, including Penny. And I have something called executive function lab.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:02:51]: I have a community courses and all kinds of things to support people. But ultimately, that's what it's about. I don't like to see kids struggle.

Penny Williams [00:02:59]: Me neither.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:03:00]: We have the know how, and we have some methodologies in education and in society and culture Mhmm. And viewpoints about kids and learning and how things, quote, should be that really hold a lot of kids back. And I'm interested in seeing kids really shine.

Penny Williams [00:03:17]: Yes. Amen to that. Huzzah. Whatever. We talk so much about that here on the podcast, about how the systems are kinda failing our kids, and so we're trying to educate, right, and help people to understand when kids are struggling that they're struggling. They're not lazy. They're not dumb. They need help.

Penny Williams [00:03:38]: So we'll link up everything. Everywhere that you can find Seth, all the great work he's doing, it will be in the show notes. I'll give you that URL at the end of the episode. For now, I think, where do we start? Do you wanna start by defining executive function? I think that, you know, so many people don't know the term, and it makes so much sense when they understand what it is. I remember, and I've probably talked about this on the podcast before, but my own kid in high school had a new, like, special ed caseworker or something. I don't it was some new position that was thrown on us, and she came in. And she had been teaching special ed for 25 years. She had never heard the term executive function until I used it in a meeting.

Penny Williams [00:04:21]: 25 years. And, thankfully, she was really interested The place

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:04:34]: The place to start for me is not to start with the definition

Penny Williams [00:04:40]: Okay.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:04:41]: But to start with what the problem looks like.

Penny Williams [00:04:44]: Mhmm. Mhmm.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:04:44]: Because I think as parents are listening to the first few minutes of this episode, I think you're gonna wanna know, should you even be listening to the rest of it, is this relevant to you? So every human being has executive function. Dogs have executive function. Cats have executive function. It has to do with the brain. But I'll talk about that later. I'm gonna talk about when somebody has executive function challenges or executive function struggles or executive function developmental delays, whatever terminology people use to describe that sort of thing, I'm not so interested in the actual terms. I'm interested in how this impacts a kid.

Penny Williams [00:05:25]: Mhmm.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:05:25]: How do we know if this is something you should be concerned about? So here's what we see. Kids with executive function challenges, they will struggle to organize stuff, to plan, to follow through, to be prepared, to be on time, to get out the door. And these struggles, I wanna make it very, very, very clear that these struggles are relative to same age peers. So if you have a young adult, you can still ask these questions. Yeah. If you have a high schooler, if you have a preschooler, you can still ask these questions. Most parents don't tend to find out that their child has executive function challenges if they even do it all, because often it's mislabeled, as we said earlier, to things like lazy and this, that, and the other. But if a child has these struggles, oftentimes, it it becomes a real concern in 5th, 6th, 7th grade.

Penny Williams [00:06:19]: Mhmm.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:06:20]: Oftentimes, not always. And what we see at that age is once kids are in around 6th grade, the, quote, handholding stops, and kids are expected to perform at a much higher level. So the teachers aren't really giving as much support in terms of making sure things get turned in.

Penny Williams [00:06:42]: Right.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:06:43]: They they're just sort of expected to turn the thing in, to do homework, to be more independent. Well, kids with executive function challenges, again, I I said that they can be mislabeled. They can be mislabeled as, oh, this kid's lazy. They're not motivated. They're not disciplined. They just don't try hard enough. They just need to work harder. They just need to apply themselves.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:07:01]: They just need to care more about school. If they they just don't care, if they would only care, everything would be okay. Why don't you care about school? Why don't you care about your grades? And so what the misunderstanding is about is that this has to do with skill sets. So, for example, you can see if you're watching the video of this that I have guitars behind me. I love guitars. If I handed you a guitar or any instrument that you don't play and said, go ahead and play this, and you were trying to play it. And I said, try harder. You're being lazy.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:07:35]: Why aren't you doing it this way? There are so many nuances to guitar. Most people I think 90% of people who start guitar quit within a year, because it is a difficult instrument.

Penny Williams [00:07:46]: It's hard.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:07:47]: Yeah. And you can learn a couple of chords, but you plateau pretty fast. And, similarly, those are skills. But on guitar, these are tons of skill sets for all of you listening. You have hobby areas or areas of expertise where you have super nuanced skill sets. Well, executive function skills are skills. So to say that the kids lazy, unmotivated, yada yada, I bet they're not unmotivated with things they're interested in.

Penny Williams [00:08:13]: Mhmm.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:08:14]: And so I wanted to talk about what the problem looks like first. Grades falling the same pattern each semester, the pattern often gets worse. The disorganization, can't find things, don't know what's for homework, don't have a realistic perception of how long the homework or the expectation takes, resistance to doing tedious things that seem abstract to them even though they may seem concrete to us, so things like that. So again, relative to their peers, they're really in a different place with these sorts of things. Now now we can get into a bit of a definition of it, and I'm gonna use the term executive function. And let's look at the word execute or executive. And think about a business executive, and what do what do they do? They make sure that things are executed upon. They actually aren't doing a lot of the execution.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:08:56]: Yeah. But they are making sure the execution gets done. And what happens with executive function is that the frontal lobe of the brain or the prefrontal cortex, the front third or so of the brain right behind your forehead, if you put your hand on your forehead right now, that big area of the brain helps us to execute tasks. It helps us to do the things that are required for execution. So let's imagine a task, like, let's say, cooking a great meal for some friends that are coming over. That requires a lot of execution. It requires planning

Penny Williams [00:09:25]: Mhmm.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:09:25]: Going in the grocery store, making sure you have what you need, making sure the dishes are clean so that when they come there, you have something to serve the food on, making sure you have the pots and pans and things that you need. K. So it requires a lot of planning. It requires a lot of organization. Can you find these ingredients? Can you find the things that you need to have a dinner? It it requires planning by inviting people, telling them the correct address. It requires time management. It requires priorities. If you feel like doing something else, but they're gonna be here in a few hours, and you just wanna veg out and watch a a great movie, Well, you're probably not gonna do that because you're gonna prioritize this thing.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:10:01]: Well, hopefully, you will. But anyhow, executive function is how the brain helps us to execute tasks and their 13 or 14 executive functions I talk about. Some experts say there are 3, 5, 8, 10, doesn't matter. But I define them as 13 or 14, and I say that loosely because I don't really care. It doesn't matter. I want you, the parent, the teacher, whoever, I don't want you to memorize the 5 or the 8 or the 3 or the 13. I want you to understand how this impacts the child and what you can do to help the child. Yeah.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:10:31]: All I care about I can give you all this information on the perfect definition of it and all that. Who the heck cares? All I care about is do you have tools to help the kid? So when I talk about 13 or 14, and maybe it'll be 15 next year, who cares? What it's about with with the actual skill sets that I look at, it it could be the planning, the organization, the impulsivity.

Penny Williams [00:10:52]: Mhmm.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:10:53]: But the other side of impulsivity is called inhibition, so holding back and not being impulsive. To me, that's still the the brain doing the same thing. It's 2 sides of the same coin.

Penny Williams [00:11:03]: Right.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:11:04]: Attention, focus, concentration. You could look at the other side of the coin on like, I could say attention, but that's the same thing as concentration or focus. And then the opposite of that is not paying attention or distractibility or so we have all these words that people can get tied up in. I do not care about that. I care about you thinking, does my child have trouble executing, getting important things done when it's not a high interest, fun, or interesting task, but it's important for their life and their well-being and their future. Do they have trouble, legitimate trouble relative to their peers getting those things done? And knowing that, again, it's not a shame blame thing where we're saying, you're being lazy. Stop being lazy. Work harder.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:11:49]: Try harder. Stop messing around. Focus more. Like, these sorts of comments that misunderstand the problem. Mhmm. But we're looking at how can we help them learn skills, executive function skills, planning skills, organization skills, prioritization skills, self starting task initiation skills, follow through skills, task completion skills. You can look at these as skill sets once you everybody who's listening right now, if you wanna make a list of all the things your child, you know, is struggling with and then write down what skills they would need to be able to do that, That will give you a much more concrete way of knowing how to support your child. That thing that you just said right there, if you're listening to this and you wanna back it up, 30 seconds might be the most important, actionable, implementable thing I've said.

Penny Williams [00:12:35]: Mhmm. So much stuff. So many things. Right? Go into executive functioning. Right?

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:12:41]: Ramble.

Penny Williams [00:12:42]: No. It's just it's a lot. And it has to be a lot because it's what governs us getting things done. Right? So, of course, there's gonna be a lot that goes into that. One question that I would have, as I was listening to you, is can you always teach the skill to the level of, maybe, peers who are neurotypical. Meaning, it's definitely part of their neurology. So can they get all the way to being, say, super organized if they're really lacking organization, or is it something that they can sort of improve, but it may not ever get to that super level?

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:13:21]: Yeah. I those are kind of 2 questions because can they get to be super organized? That's one question. Can their brain be at the same place as a neurotypical kid with exceptional executive function? So I'm gonna use the guitar analogy again.

Penny Williams [00:13:35]: K.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:13:36]: I'm a decent guitar player. I've been playing for a long, long time. I will never in my entire lifetime be as good as, let's say, Eric Clapton or BB King or, so no matter how much I play, for how many years I have left on this planet. So now that's not a brain development thing. It's a time thing and how much time but the more time that we help them do this, the better the skills get. The user could lose it. The brain is learning skills. The brain is making connections.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:14:07]: Neurons are connecting together. When they're practicing things, it gets better. As far as somebody with weak executive function or executive function challenges or developmental delays or somebody who's had a brain injury.

Penny Williams [00:14:19]: Mhmm.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:14:20]: That has impacted executive function because a lot of brain injuries happen because of an impact on the front of the head, which is where the frontal lobe is, where executive function takes place. So any of these things that impact executive function, I'm not really concerned with how do we improve. I am concerned with how do we improve brain function, but my brain's not really thinking about how do we get them to that level of their peers. I have the most boring term for what my goal is for students. This is where I'm headed with everybody, is to this one place with the student. Before I define that place, Benny, I'm gonna tell you what I want for the parents because the parents are going on a journey. Right? The parents start off on the journey where they're saying, oh my gosh. I'm concerned about my kid.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:15:04]: Is my kid gonna be okay? How are they gonna make it in this world? How are they gonna be an adult? How are they gonna keep a job? How are they gonna keep a relationship? How are they gonna so and these are real concerns Mhmm. That parents are petrified about. And they as they quote should be, because these are real consequences. The consequences of legitimate executive function challenges are real. And when kids are misunderstood and it's blamed on the other things, and they feel horrible about who they are, and it's this incredible human being with all these strengths and talent. So, anyhow, to get back to where I was headed with that, I want the parents to get, on their journey to get to the point where they breathe a sigh of relief, and they go, my kid's gonna be okay. Yeah. So getting back to the goal for the kid where the journey is going to is this, the super boring term, good enough executive function.

Penny Williams [00:15:57]: Mhmm. Mhmm.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:15:58]: That's all I want the kids to have, good enough executive function.

Penny Williams [00:16:01]: Thank you for saying that.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:16:02]: That's all they need. Yes. Now imagine somebody who leads a really cool company that helps so many people in the world. And imagine that they have ADHD, really severe executive function challenges, but they are great visionary, and they are motivating to people and encouraging and yada yada. Well, they're not executing on certain things, but they're in their lane. They're playing to their strengths. They have found where they are in the world, and they have people who are better at executing, doing a certain execution. Now, that doesn't happen in school.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:16:35]: Obviously, you're expected to do all of these things. School is not usually strength based, unfortunately.

Penny Williams [00:16:40]: Mhmm.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:16:41]: It's very deficit focused.

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Penny Williams [00:17:45]: That's less than 3¢ a bottle. Plus you'll save the environment from tons of plastic waste. It got delivered straight to my door and it was so easy to set up. AquaTru comes with a 30 day money back guarantee and even makes a great gift. Today, my listeners receive 20% off any AquaTru purifier. Just go to aquatru.com, that's aqa tru.com, and enter code complex at checkout. That's 20% off any AquaTru water purifier when you go to aquatrue.com and use promo code complex, c o m p l e x. You know, I get the question all the time, like, can executive function not be cured, but, you know, can I get my kid to that sort of, air quotes, normal place? Right? And I from my experience with my kid, he's never gonna have, like, that super high level of, like, organization.

Penny Williams [00:18:51]: His organization is almost nil. Right? So even at 21, he's still struggling with that, and what we work on is, how does he do the things that he needs to do in life successfully? What tools can we use? What strategies can we use? How do we get to good enough? Right? Just as you were saying, but I'm so thankful that you said that, because I think teachers and parents need permission to not always sort of reach for that ideal pinnacle. Right? Mhmm. We need permission to say, this is good enough for this task or this skill

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:19:27]: Mhmm.

Penny Williams [00:19:27]: Because they can still succeed.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:19:29]: Yep. Yep. Now, in saying that, also, we can think about the brain development. Like your kiddo, your your child's front part of the brain, that's the last part of the brain to develop. So your kids the more your kiddo works with these structures, meaning executive function, skill sets, or systems that they're implementing, The more that your child works with this stuff now until they're 25 or 30 years old, the brain is still developing. Until you're 25 or 30 years old, the front part of the brain is still developing. Developing. Yep.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:20:01]: So that's really good to know. Yep. Now after that, there's not a lot of changes can happen. So for example, for me, I still have tremendous struggles with certain things. My brain will never be able to, let's say, be as organized as my girlfriends and focused. Like she wants to do one thing at a time and work on it until it's done. I wanna work on the 40 things at a time and bounce back and forth, and somehow I magically get a 1,000,000 things done. But it it is not the best way.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:20:30]: But I figured out how to make it work for me.

Penny Williams [00:20:32]: It works for you. Yeah.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:20:34]: It's not that I've gotten my brain to work better. However, I have gotten my brain to work better in certain ways, and that has to do for me with things that impact executive function, sleep, nutrition, exercise. I had horrific sleep problems for many years. I've worked so hard on that. Consistent with fitness, I think better when I move. My mood is better, yada yada. So anyhow, there are things that make executive function worse when we do or don't do certain things, and that make it better when we do or don't do certain things. So that's important to look at as a parent too is what sort of environmental factors, what sort of food sensitivities might you not even know about that might impact executive function, emotional experiences that are impacting executive function or traumas or things like this.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:21:17]: But does that mean that the brain's ability to execute like, there's been all this development. To me, it's more like things that were in the way are not as much in the way when it comes to that. Now then the other thing is is external things to help with the executive functions. Systems, Better systems for organizing, planning, technology, support people if you're in in, any job. Let's say that you're working at a restaurant. A restaurant is a series of executive function things going on. I mean, it's it's a place designed to execute certain things. This thing that we call food is prepared in a way that humans can consume it and have a good time, and it's delivered to them.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:21:58]: You know, there's so much going on to make that happen. So many systems Yep. Of where the plates are, the napkins, how the the chairs are, systems Yep. Of where the plates are, the napkins, how the the chairs are, blah blah. They're sewn how people pay. These are all systems. And for your kiddo, they need systems. And what happens is is a lot of kids with strong executive function, they see a need for a system.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:22:18]: They see a problem. They say, oh, I I don't know where to put this paper. I better get a new folder for this type of Mhmm. Papers. And they proactively do it, and it bugs them if they don't. Well, for kids with executive function challenges, most of us, it doesn't bug us Mhmm. Until it's really painful.

Penny Williams [00:22:35]: Yeah.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:22:35]: And we avoid it because it's tedious. It's not fun. And but if somebody were to just gently show us, which we don't do in school, and, like, we don't teach how to plan and organize. And it seems like these kids who are good at it just sort of care more and work harder and this and that, and that they are more motivated and disciplined, and they're better students. That's not the case. These kids don't have the same skills, and nobody's ever taught them. And then they're expected to know. But it's very it's sort of an invisible thing.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:23:06]: You know, you can't look at somebody and say, oh, their brain doesn't know how to, you know, use a planner. And they're pulling their planner out every day. It looks like they're writing in it, but they really don't know why they're writing. They're just writing it to make the teacher not say to them, get your planner out or whatever the case is. But the skills aren't being built. Mhmm.

Penny Williams [00:23:28]: So Yeah. Totally agree.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:23:29]: I did wanna say something similar to that again Yeah. With the skill level, and I'm gonna use, I'm sorry, but the guitar analogy, again, what is good enough? There are people who play guitar that are some of the most famous people in the world that all their songs are 3 chord songs, and they know 3 chord they play 3 chords really well, And they've built a career. They've written amazing songs. They've touched hearts, around the world, and they play, you know, 3 chords

Penny Williams [00:23:57]: Yeah.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:23:58]: Really well. And then there are people who do technical things that are so far and above that. It's the gap is incredible, and nobody might even know who they are. They they can play so fast, but people don't really care because it's not touching the soul. And anyhow, there's huge gaps, and we just really gotta always, as parents and teachers, always come back to mental health.

Penny Williams [00:24:23]: Yes.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:24:23]: How does this person feel? What is good enough executive function? What is good enough? What do they want? What do they need? Not how do I think they should navigate the world, and do I think they should go to college, and do I think they should go to this type of school, and do I think they should get these type of grades? But what is this human being standing right in front of you that you love? What do they need to be happy, healthy, successful in this world, to feel good about who they are? You know, that should always be, you know, in our mind whenever we're asking questions.

Penny Williams [00:24:52]: Number 1. Number 1. Number 1. Relationship and mental health has to be number 1, and redefining success. Or not even redefining it, but just defining it for each individual. Success who are miserable, who don't feel successful. Right? It's not a genuine thing. So we need to be and I go down this diatribe all the time, but we need to be teaching individuals.

Penny Williams [00:25:24]: We need to be, you know, defining success by individuals. It all needs to be more individualized instead of this machine that we're trying to just make everybody the same and and put everybody through because that's where we fail, all kids like ours. That's where they fall through the cracks. That's where they're labeled as unmotivated and lazy and all of these things. You know? I have a very highly intelligent kid who graduated from high school thinking that he was lazy. He and still, we're trying to deprogram that. Right? Because that was the message he kept getting. You're smart enough to do this.

Penny Williams [00:26:02]: Why can't you just? And and I remember when he was little, and I didn't understand what was going on yet, and I didn't know what I know. I probably said, why can't you just with something there a 100 times a day to this poor kid? Because I didn't get it yet. Right? But that, to me, is a red flag. If you're using those words, there is a struggle, and you need to dig deeper. Right? And you need to look at executive function.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:26:28]: Mhmm.

Penny Williams [00:26:29]: Do you wanna tell us about TFAS before we run out of time?

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:26:31]: I do wanna say one last thing about executive function.

Penny Williams [00:26:34]: Yep.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:26:34]: When I learned about executive function, I had already been teaching for many years and a huge light bulb went off. Mhmm. It just pulled everything together. It's like an umbrella executive function. For all the kids that struggled, it was the umbrella. And then when I started understanding it, it just blew my mind that nobody was talking about it because it is such an umbrella. And what it did is it changed the way I looked at things to be able to say, okay, these are skills, and what are the areas under the umbrella that we need to work on that we can help them have systems and stuff about? So I just wanted to say that that this was just so pivotal.

Penny Williams [00:27:12]: Mhmm.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:27:12]: And that that is why this is my life's work is this one thing because it impacts all kids who struggle.

Penny Williams [00:27:19]: Yeah. So You can't be self reliant without a good executive function, right, or somebody who's taking care of those things for you.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:27:27]: Right. And adulting is hard. And I think it's more complicated today than it ever has been.

Penny Williams [00:27:34]: Mhmm.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:27:36]: Technology is a great thing, but we have so much technology. There's just so much vying for our attention. Attention is precious resource. And Yeah. Learning how and what to execute on with the sort of choice paralysis we have in life today is is really hard. So and it goes back. Again, we're looking to help them to have great mental health and

Penny Williams [00:27:59]: Find balance.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:28:00]: So I'll tell you about Tifos is Yep. So it's executive function summit.com.executivefunctionsummit.com. Tifos is the executive function online summit. So this is my 6th year doing it. I started it because I wanted people to learn about this. Every year, I have a bunch of people who are passionate. I work to get people who are coming from the heart, who really care about what they do. Mhmm.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:28:22]: I'm not the easiest interviewer because I am super annoying to the people I interview in terms of I want strategies. I want implementation. Information is great. Mhmm. Parents need to know how to implement. They don't need a bunch more theory. It's important. It has its place.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:28:38]: But I want them walking away from each of the talks saying, okay. I know something I can do to help my kid this year. So I make it very step by step and practical and implementable. And, yeah, it's one of my passions. I kinda wish I wasn't doing it because I wish that the culture and society and schools and education, that it was a no brainer that we support all kids

Penny Williams [00:29:01]: Mhmm.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:29:01]: To meet their individual needs regardless of their needs. But we are still very far from that. Yeah. But anyhow, that's what the summit's about.

Penny Williams [00:29:10]: And Tifos is such a wealth of perspectives and information and action. That's what I love about it, is that we really get a lot of different perspectives. A lot of people coming from maybe the education side of it, maybe from, you know, the parenting side of it, which is what I talk about when I'm so lucky to be in Tifos. And it's just it's different from a lot of other summits in that way, and your heart comes through in all of it. And I think that's inspiring for the parents and teachers who are going through it. Like, sometimes learning is hard, and for parents, finding the time to take on conferences and things like that, no matter how much you want to help your kid, it's hard. And this is just one of those summits that you're really gonna walk away, not just with strategies, but feeling sort of changed almost, if that makes sense. And that's it it's amazing.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:30:10]: Thank you for saying that because that's so important to me to do that. And I do this again because I was a kid who struggled, and I eventually got the support I needed. But the the suffering I've experienced from beating up on myself and thinking that I wasn't okay and that I wasn't enough and that I was not capable, and that I was a lazy failure. I'd be okay if I didn't suffer as much with those sorts of demons that I had. Yeah. But people didn't know what I needed, and they were baffled. And they're like you said, they're like, he's bright. Why isn't he just blah blah?

Penny Williams [00:30:47]: Yep.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:30:48]: So I want people to come from the heart. And I'm so glad you said that because that's an intention is that people walk away with that. So it's free for the weekend, and, there's an all access pass version people can buy. And

Penny Williams [00:31:00]: I'll link it all up in the show notes for everybody so that they can easily access it. And I know the pricing changes based on the timing, and so maybe that'll be an easier way to get accurate information on it based on when people are listening.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:31:13]: But at the very least, come to the free weekend and get as much as you can because we pack it with just game changing stuff to help you.

Penny Williams [00:31:21]: Yep. For sure. Those show notes for everyone listening are at parentingadhdandautism.com/276

Penny Williams [00:31:29]: for episode 276. And we will link up other things to you, not just TFOS, but all the work that Seth is doing, social media, website, all that good stuff will be there, as well as some takeaways from this episode, a transcript, and much more. So I encourage everybody to go there. Definitely check out Tfos. You will walk away from it better. Even if you only can watch one one session, you're in a better place than you were the day before. Right? You're gonna learn something. So I encourage everybody to do that.

Penny Williams [00:32:01]: And I thank you as always, Seth, for sharing your time, your wisdom, your heart with all of us. It is so so welcomed and so appreciated, and I will see everybody on the next episode.

Seth Perler, M.Ed. [00:32:13]: Thanks for how you show up in the world, Penny, and take care, everybody.

Penny Williams [00:32:16]: Yeah. Thank you so much, Seth.

Penny Williams [00:32:19]: Thanks for joining me on the Beautifully Complex podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share. And don't forget to check out my online courses and parent coaching at parentingadhdandautsism.com and thebehaviorrevolution.com.